Stringmaster making weird sounds 12-17th fret positions

Mike Harris · Post by **Mike Harris** » 14 Aug 2023 4:27 am

This is not simply a matter of sustain--on the highest strings at the 15th and 16th frets I can barely hear the fundamental tone, but I can hear the higher octave (first harmonic). As you move in either direction away from those frets it gradually normalizes. This is an acoustic phenomenon, nothing to do with the electronics. I tried new Scotty's SIT strings and I tried Mike Neer's trick with the quarters under the bridge. No help. Any suggestions? This is a '56 Stringmaster neck, 24.5" scale.

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 14 Aug 2023 8:47 am

Are you using the same amp/same settings you always have used?

Is there a pickup blend and/or tone control on your guitar?

Sorry to ask a potentially condescending question, but are you using good blocking technique behind the bar?

Mike Harris · Post by **Mike Harris** » 14 Aug 2023 9:02 am

Fred,

it has nothing to do with any of those things. You can hear it with or without amplification. It's part of a T-8 and this neck is the only one with this strange problem. The other two necks sound normal and good. It only happens in this small portion of the middle neck--above and below that area it sounds fine. Thanks for weighing in.

Joe A. Roberts · Post by **Joe A. Roberts** » 14 Aug 2023 9:13 am

Does it go away if you press harder with the bar? Is it every string? I think it could be the strings (especially if they are light gauges) buzzing on something if it is giving you a funky sitar sound. Especially as the strings are more supple at those frets. There is also the wolf-tome phenomenon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_tone
Could be dud strings, though if its all of them that is unlikely.

Copying my post from this thread: https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=393615
Have you tried this? (Stringmaster specific advice):

“Some setup tips from a post I saved authored by Mr. Stephen Cowell:

" Sustain... there are four big screws (not near the edge, under the cover) behind the bridge that determine (to a large part) the response of the guitar. Over time these screws get loose... tightening them will increase sustain and improve the tone of the guitar. If they strip, pull them out and put toothpicks and Elmer's glue back in... when they're tight, the guitar is at its optimum and your high registers will sound better. You can also hot-rod a SM by putting in string-through-body retainers (like a Tele)... not a simple job, but will really bring out playing above the 12th fret, where normally SM's die badly. "

Full thread:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=281696”

Joe A. Roberts · Post by **Joe A. Roberts** » 14 Aug 2023 9:23 am

Another theory I have is maybe the nut or bridge slots are not cut well for the strings you are using, especially if you are using a really low bottom string.
Perhaps the bar is not making firm contact with the middle strings, especially when at those suppler fret positions.
So the strings are hitting bounce off the bar for a split second when they are struck creating a harmonic.

Let us know what the issue was if you get it sorted out! I’m sure there’s a solution!
Good luck and have fun with the guitar, a ‘56 T8 is just about the tops!

David Knutson · Post by **David Knutson** » 14 Aug 2023 10:44 am

Well, this is a totally off the wall, wild guess here but . . . could it possibly be related to the through-rods that hold the necks together? Some kind of mechanical cancelling of just those notes in just those locations? I’m not a string master guy, so I don’t know how easy it is to adjust those. ?

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 14 Aug 2023 10:52 am

Just for kicks and giggles, try muting the other two necks. Any way possible - throw a towel over them or something.

Mike Harris · Post by **Mike Harris** » 14 Aug 2023 12:17 pm

Okay, it's a stand-alone neck that has been removed (nothing has been altered that would be noticed when it's re-assembled as a T-8 down the road). I have a D-8 and an S-8 that originally were/was a T-8.

Now, I tried slightly loosening the screws on the plate, no difference. But I detuned the high E string by a 3 frets equivalent and rather than behaving weirdly at the same frets it now behaves weirdly at the same pitches (three frets higher). And on the neighbor strings, it's the same pitches again, just increasingly higher up the fingerboard. Something is killing the frequencies in the F# to B flat range. The same notes in the lower octaves are not noticeably different. This is a head-scratcher.

David Knutson · Post by **David Knutson** » 14 Aug 2023 12:46 pm

You’ve got a real international mystery going here, Mike. Could it be a sympathetic harmonic from behind the bridge, only responding to certain pitches?

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 14 Aug 2023 3:02 pm

Could it be a sympathetic harmonic from behind the bridge

Or behind the nut.

Is it the thin neck or the thick one? Maybe the wood itself is resonating enough to cancel the fundamental.

I would just take everything apart, do a quick inspection, and hope for the best putting it back together.

Mike Harris · Post by **Mike Harris** » 14 Aug 2023 3:07 pm

I think it must be the jack, which means I have to remove all those screws in the plate (except the pickup screws). This neck never had an output jack. The one I added is your standard through the body with a nut type guitar jack. Stringmasters have a sort of tap-in jack with no nut and I think I now know why. I think this nut is so tight that it's affecting the ability of the body to vibrate properly. If this ain't it, then I don't know what could be the cause.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 15 Aug 2023 7:41 am

Did you try *tightening* the screws behind the plate?

Brooks Montgomery · Post by **Brooks Montgomery** » 15 Aug 2023 8:19 am

Maybe call this guy

Mike Harris · Post by **Mike Harris** » 16 Aug 2023 6:43 pm

Stephen,

yes, thanks, I did, with a C-clamp pressing the plate down a bit. Strangely, I think it may have moved the "dead zone" a bit higher. The sound is better, I think, but still not quite right. I'm going to live with it for now. Suitable for rehearsals but I'm not sure about gigs.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 16 Aug 2023 7:43 pm

Mike Harris wrote:Stephen,

yes, thanks, I did, with a C-clamp pressing the plate down a bit. Strangely, I think it may have moved the "dead zone" a bit higher. The sound is better, I think, but still not quite right. I'm going to live with it for now. Suitable for rehearsals but I'm not sure about gigs.

I'd take the plate off and make sure it's flat... or maybe even bowed concave a little. I think you're on the right track. You want the plate under the bridge flat against the wood, whatever that takes. GL.

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 17 Aug 2023 2:09 am

Some regular electric guitars and – especially – basses have a dead spot somewhere along the neck, usually caused by the neck's natural resonance frequency clashing with the note of the string. Seems to be what you are experiencing here.

This can sometimes be fixed by adding mass to the headstock, like a brass plate or similar, moving the bothersome frequency into another register. Why not try clamping a heavy piece of metal to the body to see if anything changes? If it does, you can find a permanent solution.

Ethan Shaw · Post by **Ethan Shaw** » 18 Aug 2023 8:53 am

On one of my stringmasters, I had some weird dead spots that were fixed when I flipped the bridge over.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 18 Aug 2023 8:06 pm

Ethan Shaw wrote:On one of my stringmasters, I had some weird dead spots that were fixed when I flipped the bridge over.

Did you flip the bridge bar or the plate? Dnt unnerstnd!

Ethan Shaw · Post by **Ethan Shaw** » 20 Aug 2023 7:13 am

Stephen, it was the actual bridge bar. I just unscrewed it, flipped it upside down, and screwed it back on that way. I don't know why the bridges cause dead spots, but I have three stringmasters, and I've seen this multiple times. It was definitely the bridges on mine. One didn't fix the dead spot when I flipped it, but it moved it really high up the neck, so I use that for the bass tuning on my quad, where I never play that high. It seems like the bridge bars would be pretty easy to make for someone with the right tools, and it would be really nice to be able to experiment and replace them. Between my stringmasters, I have nine bridges, and they are surprisingly varied in their sustain. I know for sure because I tried different ones out on the same neck, with all the other factors being the same. But sometimes flipping them upside down helps a lot, so that's at least worth trying.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 21 Aug 2023 9:08 pm

Ethan Shaw wrote:Stephen, it was the actual bridge bar. I just unscrewed it, flipped it upside down, and screwed it back on that way. I don't know why the bridges cause dead spots, but I have three stringmasters, and I've seen this multiple times. (snip)

Seems to me that it would be the bend of the screw or the spring... changing the mechanical conduction of the bar to the plate. Do you use light strings? I'm not one to believe in voodoo... but I trust you're hearing something.
Flipping the bridge bar over should not change anything with the bar itself.

Ethan Shaw · Post by **Ethan Shaw** » 27 Aug 2023 6:52 am

I just use normal gauge strings. You're right, it definitely could have something to do with the screws, but if that was the case, it should be the same with every bridge bar, which on mine, it was not. Your guess is as good as mine! For Mike, your (Stephen) screw tightening hint would definitely be the first thing I tried, but I just figured this is a pretty easy thing to try, too, and it did make a significant difference for me. I've also noticed that especially the plain strings can form divots in the chrome, and that can definitely make it buzz. Flipping the bar should also solve that. (Unless someone already did that, haha!)

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