Short scale lap steel?

Tony Harris · Post by **Tony Harris** » 26 Jun 2023 6:12 am

Hi. I see that both Jerry Byrd and Chris Scruggs recommend 22.5 scale lap steels for easier bar slants, and especially easier behind-the-bar bends. Chris has a video interview on YouTube where he shows some slants, and the best bends I've ever seen!
But which guitars use this scale? Any recommendations?
Thanks.

Noah Miller · Post by **Noah Miller** » 26 Jun 2023 6:28 am

That's a very common scale. Most Gibsons and Rickenbackers are about 22.5", as are many Fenders, and most Valco steels are 23".

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 26 Jun 2023 7:10 am

I played a triple neck, long scale (26") Stringmaster for many years and I had no trouble making slants.

Erv

G Strout · Post by **G Strout** » 26 Jun 2023 1:28 pm

Like Noah mentioned 22.5 is a very popular scale. I would not go any shorter than that (Rogue, Artisan lap steels) as the slants get very difficult especially above the 12th position. If you have purchased or plan to purchase one of those steels due to budget constraints, I would suggest talking with George Piburn (George Boards) he makes a conversion kit that will fit right on them to convert them to 22.5 scale.
Gary

David DeLoach · Post by **David DeLoach** » 26 Jun 2023 1:32 pm

I have an 8 string Clinesmith that is 22.5" scale. Love it! I had no issues up the neck with the short scale.

Glenn Wilde · Post by **Glenn Wilde** » 26 Jun 2023 6:23 pm

It's really just about what you're used to, slants on a 25" Dobro are no problem for me because that's what I mostly play, I'm also comfortable on my 22 1/2 steels, but it takes a second when I switch over.

Rich Arnold · Post by **Rich Arnold** » 4 Jul 2023 10:48 am

Scale length has never made a difference to me when slanting the bar. It's the string spacing. Closer string spacing makes slants easier.

Jeff Highland · Post by **Jeff Highland** » 4 Jul 2023 1:16 pm

Rich Arnold wrote:Scale length has never made a difference to me when slanting the bar. It's the string spacing. Closer string spacing makes slants easier.

That's strange, wider string spacing (at the nut) actually reduces the required slant angle.

Levi Gemmell · Post by **Levi Gemmell** » 4 Jul 2023 3:08 pm

Interesting point, Jeff. Mileage may vary, but I'm with Rich on this one.

Narrow string spacing creates a more acute angle, but my hand naturally wants to throw the slant a bit further anyway, so my intonation is better with narrower string spacing.

I think a lot of it comes down to how you hold the bar. My index is not lying flat across the top, anything but. If I used the conventional flat posture that you see with most pedal steel players, I think I would find acute slants difficult.

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 4 Jul 2023 8:07 pm

Fron Gene Wooten, who was never skeered of slants: Overslanting is better than underslanting because with overslanting, you at least pass thru the proper notes and the ear will accept it, but with underslanting, you you will always sound flat.

Rich Arnold · Post by **Rich Arnold** » 7 Jul 2023 6:11 am

Jeff Highland wrote:
Rich Arnold wrote:Scale length has never made a difference to me when slanting the bar. It's the string spacing. Closer string spacing makes slants easier.
That's strange, wider string spacing (at the nut) actually reduces the required slant angle.

The contemplation of bar angle is irrelevant. In case you haven't noticed the frets get closer together as you go up the scale so the angle is changing. All that is needed to get this correct while playing is an ear. Unless you want to use a protractor.

That being established, closer string spacing (not only at the nut but the entire string length) allows for successful slant execution acrost mutaple strings. For example the 1st and 7th string played in unison.
I made a bar for a dude who wanted it 6 inches long so he could accomplish those slants.

Tony Harris · Post by **Tony Harris** » 7 Jul 2023 6:17 am

Thanks for all your advice guys. I'm now looking out for a 22 1/2" guitar, but can't justify the cost (or afford) a vintage Gibson or Fender. Anyone have any experience of the Epiphone Electar (reissue)? Thanks.

Jeff Highland · Post by **Jeff Highland** » 7 Jul 2023 1:41 pm

Rich Arnold wrote:
Jeff Highland wrote:
Rich Arnold wrote:Scale length has never made a difference to me when slanting the bar. It's the string spacing. Closer string spacing makes slants easier.
That's strange, wider string spacing (at the nut) actually reduces the required slant angle.
The contemplation of bar angle is irrelevant. In case you haven't noticed the frets get closer together as you go up the scale so the angle is changing. All that is needed to get this correct while playing is an ear. Unless you want to use a protractor.
That being established, closer string spacing (not only at the nut but the entire string length) allows for successful slant execution acrost mutaple strings. For example the 1st and 7th string played in unison.
I made a bar for a dude who wanted it 6 inches long so he could accomplish those slants.

No I don't use a protractor.
However the common justification for using short scale lengths is that it make slants easier by reducing the angle required. Narrow string spacing increases the angle, just a matter of geometry. I don't really care either way.