help with tuning and strings

Peter Leone · Post by **Peter Leone** » 1 Jul 2023 4:50 pm

I've been playing for just a few weeks now. I've got the bug and I am sticking with it. I'm lucky enough to have double neck and have it set up for c6 and e9. Originally I planned on just doing the c6 for a while and ignore the e9 until I felt proficient to explore more. However, as a bluegrass banjo player I am realizing that there are certain standards I would never play other than in specific tunings.

Should I keep learning c6 until I'm established, or does it make sense to learn c6 and e9 simultaneously?

Frank Freniere · Post by **Frank Freniere** » 1 Jul 2023 8:55 pm

I hope Paul Franklin sees this - I’d be really interested in what he has to say.

Peter Leone · Post by **Peter Leone** » 1 Jul 2023 9:16 pm

Yeah, met too! I'm hoping somebody pipes in...

John Swain · Post by **John Swain** » 2 Jul 2023 6:21 am

I'd say learn them together ! All the technique, music theory, and song knowledge is applicable to both necks.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 2 Jul 2023 6:42 am

I totally agree with Mr Swain - get both halves of your brain working!

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 2 Jul 2023 7:33 am

I once asked Tommy White almost the same question. He replied that he'd taken on both necks simultaneously, I believe as per his dad's advice.

It's worked for Tommy.

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 2 Jul 2023 9:02 am

Peter,
Learn both at the same time. Why? because our mind is capable of so much more than we ever ask of it...Music is math delivered with emotion...On either tuning its about locating interval distances..

C6 asks us to skip strings for major triads
E9 asks us to use pedals instead of skipping strings

Music is all about finding then memorizing as many
interval(Math)combinations as possible.
All locations of intervals can be memorized without a guitar. I started playing at 8 years..I memorized the locations in recess and study halls...In about 3 months I saw both tunings the same way.

For example a melody

On E9 at the 8th fret(C) play as single strings 3 4 5 4

Same melody on C6th as single strings 2 3 5 3

The intervals of that melody on both tunings are
3rd, then root/1st, then 5th, then repeat the 1st/root

When students learn and memorize the sounds of intervals which is the major scale, It does not matter what tuning is played, the music values are always the same. We just have to take the time to memorize where they are found. That intervallic knowledge can be accomplished easily on any tuning.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 2 Jul 2023 9:26 am

That's it right there.

I wish Paul's post had been available to absorb fifty years ago!

Peter Leone · Post by **Peter Leone** » 2 Jul 2023 11:39 am

Thanks everyone! Seems there is consensus to learn both. I appreciate the thoughtful repsonses.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 2 Jul 2023 4:03 pm

I think that one of the edges older players and heroes from the past have over newer players who don’t experience the evolution they did, is that they learned to play STEEL guitar first. C6th, no matter how many pedals and levers one hangs on it is STEEL guitar; one MOVES the bar to make music.

In contrast E9th is a genious “system” which however really requires the use of at least the main pedals from the get-go. E9th is by definition a PEDAL steel guitar. Yeah I know, Jerry Byrd recorded a few tunes on E9th WITHOUT pedals… but JB was JB and if sombody would say he played 5-note chords on a single string guitar, I would at least give it the benefit of doubt

I think, the reason E9th players like BE, Lloyd Green, PF don’t seem to come up anymore, is that too many start on E9th pumping pedals and noodling the heck outta them top 4 strings senselessly, hoping the “machine” will make music somehow.

If someone has the inclination to start on C6th, I would say “good for you”, i’ll make you that much a better E9th player down the line.

But that’s just opining. … JD.

Peter Leone · Post by **Peter Leone** » 2 Jul 2023 5:23 pm

Yeah, I am actually starting on steel, no pedals. Sorry I didn't clarify that.

So, what is the version of E for straight steel? I see many versions of E but not sure which strings to buy for E.

Tom Spaulding · Post by **Tom Spaulding** » 3 Jul 2023 5:28 am

You’ll likely get more applicable results if you ask your questions in the Steel Without Pedals topic section of the forum.

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 3 Jul 2023 5:39 am

Peter,
If you love and desire the sound of the recordings with pedal steel, why not start there?..I encourage all students to spend their time wisely instead of learning in circles... so if pedal playing is your destination why spin wheels chasing a version of non pedal E? At the end of the day you will still have to start over on E9th. Physically pedal guitars have a completely different feel...The consequence of transitioning from lap to pedals causes a few amendments in blocking due to closer string spacings. Which means you will need to relearn some of the basics...Relearning or correcting things takes longer than learning them right in the first place.. I was told this right from the beginning by Billy Clark, son of Casey Clark who hired teenager Buddy Emmons..Buddy got his start in Detroit and Billy learned from buddy in Buddy's formative years...I suggest you pick a goal and go straight toward it..There is nothing wrong with playing lap steel if that is your goal or end game.
Paul

Larry Jamieson · Post by **Larry Jamieson** » 3 Jul 2023 6:29 am

Paul is correct. From a young age, I wanted to play pedal steel. I tried a six string lap steel, but could not make the sounds I was hearing from pedal steels, so I put it down until I could afford to buy a pedal steel. Then I was motivated to work at it and learn to play the sound, the music I wanted to make on pedal steel.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 3 Jul 2023 7:24 am

I think the OP question is completely different for nonpedal than pedal steel. There is a recent discussion about nonpedal vs pedal here - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=392369. My answer there is unchanged - when I started playing steel, I wanted pedal steel, period. Classic E9 pedal steel. That is what I had the passion for at the time. Since then, I've expanded into C6 or A6 nonpedal, and finally C6 pedal steel.

So my question is, "What is your passion?" I'd go for that, whatever it is, because I think passion is an essential ingredient to getting good at anything.

For nonpedal, I think a 6th tuning makes more sense to me. I personally find the major tunings more limited, although I admit that great dobro players make major tunings work just fine, thank you. But I'm glad I went with 6th tunings because I think it was a good entree into C6 pedal steel.

If you want, we can move this over to the nonpedal section. I agree that you'll probably get more targeted answers there, if that's what you're really going for.