Technique question

[James Wishart]

Hello fellow Steelers.
After 50 years as a 6 string guitar player, I finally smartened up and started playing pedal steel 5 years ago. Recently, I changed my technique from using a thumb pick and 2 finger picks, to just a thumb pick. I have not looked back. For me, it is much easier, and it gives a cleaner sound. I no longer get that occasional “chink” sound that Jeff Newman once spoke about when referring to the effect of pick blocking.
So, has anyone else ever tried it? Do you use it intermittently, exclusively? I am curious.
Thank you. I truly enjoy the forum.

[Ian Rae]

Consider what your audience is expecting to hear.

To get a recognisable commercial sound you should persevere with the finger picks. Extraneous noises can be practised away.

Don't throw out the baby of tone with the bathwater of convenience

[Fred Treece]

James, your steel story is my steel story, and I’m doing exactly the same thing.

My guitar playing style is thumb pick and bare fingers. I got comfortable with metal fingerpicks for steel playing when I started 6 years ago, but problems arose on the gig switching between guitar and steel. Half the time there was no time for slipping into the fingerpicks, so I just ended up playing bare fingered anyway. It worked out well enough for me to make the jump to no-picks style. It’s an experiment. I go back to practicing with the picks on occasion because I don’t want to lose the technique entirely (for some reason?). So far so good.

I don’t get hung up on whether I am pick-blocking, palm-blocking, fingertip blocking, raising the butt of the bar blocking, or left hand blocking. Each seems to have found its way into my playing out of necessity and/or convenience. I’m not great at any of those techniques, but that is more a matter of seat time than me thinking about whether or not they are worthy of putting into practice. I would block with my forehead if it seemed like the only way at the time.

Ian, to your point, which I generally respect as a valid-
The audience that I play for is not exactly filled with steel guitar connoisseurs. They don’t know what the thing is, let alone how it’s supposed to sound or how most people play it. If anyone ever does approach me on the gig and say something like “Your tone sucks because you’re playing bare-fingered”, I’ll say something like “Ian! How’s it goin’, good buddy!”

[Roger Rettig]

I'm communicating with Sez Adamson at the moment. He's one of the most accomplished C6 players out there (watch him on YouTube) and he plays with his bare fingers.

I take Ian's point. In a band setting (or, as was the case with my last 25 years of working, accompanying a stage show), sometimes that 'cut' is required. If you're playing for yourself, however, that's different.

I'm always tinkering under my guitar and today has been no exception and, when it's time to retune the changer-end, I often don't bother to put on my picks. I play guitar with no picks - no thumb-pick, either - and I often wonder if I could have adopted that method on steel and somehow made it work, even in a pro situation.

[Jack Stoner]

I'm a "Thumb Picker" on straight guitar. Even did a little Chet on my 1961 PX6120 Gretsch. I started on lap steel when I was about 12 trying to copy Little Roy Wiggins and a thumb and two picks was common. When I got a Pedal Steel in Oct 69 and got a Sho-Bud instruction book, it too showed thumb and 2 finger picks. 53 years later and retired from bands, I still use thumb and finger picks at home.

[Henry Matthews]

Lol, I’ll never agree with y’all that bare fingers sound as good as pics but what do I know. Ian hit it on the nose.

[Donny Hinson]

What matters is how you sound. If you're getting a good sound, that's all that counts. Only if you find there's something missing in what you're hearing, or something you can't do, should you change to something else.

[Herb Steiner]

It's a gentler sound than wearing picks on the fingertip. I pretty much around the house just go with a thumbpick and bare fingers.

[Jeremy Threlfall]

What Herb said. I sometimes use a thumpick and bare fingers for quiet duo gigs with an acoustic guitar

I play in rock bands too - full metal pick compliment for that

I had a fingerpick fly off halfway through Neil Young's "Ready for the Country" the other night at a show (played lap steel style - AB pedals down) that was a bit difficult sound-wise, but it wasn't the end of the world

[Jim Sliff]

Consider what your audience is expecting to hear.

To get a recognisable commercial sound you should persevere with the finger picks. Extraneous noises can be practised away.

Don't throw out the baby of tone with the bathwater of convenience

I respectfully...but thoroughly...disagree. 90% of an audience NOT made up of other steel players only recognize the "skeletal outline" of ANY steel playing.

And who decided steel has to only be played in a way that gets a "commercial sound"? What IS a "commercial sound" in 2022?

Most of the general public (as "traditional country that includes pedal steel" makes up a VERY tiny percentage of the world's "commercial music". Very little commercial music includes a pedal steel) think its an electric dulcimer or harpsichord or some foreign instrument because they have never heard of a pedal steel...because "commercial sound" producers don't think "pedal steel.

Most audiences only hear "good" or "bad" playing. Only other players have laser-beam expectations of xerox-copy playing of steel playing. And many of us think regurgitating "what was on the record" perfectly is BORING.

Thankfully, some players stretch the "rules" and don't play within your narrow painted lines.

If he gets a good sound with his fingers - so what? Are you an absolute expert above all of us to the point of saying it's not possible?

Do you even have a single clue as to the composition of his "audience"? It could be his family, His dog. A goldfish. Painted drywall . Headbangers listening to his heavy metal band.

Without players who did things differently - oh, like adding pedals to a console steel; or splitting those pedals and rolling the ankles -There would be no pedal steel guitar.

Attaching a pedal to a perefectly good Hawaiian guitar...and then TWO of the &^@#$% things?

Heresy! Burn Buddy at the stake! Oh, and send Sneaky Pete - the only player Buddy said intimidated him - to the gallows and give the town buckets of rocks! He dared to use the same POS guitar for decades!

Chill, dude. Let the guy play in whatever way makes HIM happy. You're not the "Steel Enforcer".

[Dave Hopping]

It's fun to play at home with just a thumb-pick/bare fingers, and I've tried it a couple of times at work. Sounded soft and kinda mushy AND it tore up my fingers. Doesn't work for me on the gig....

I'm one of those guys who thinks that copping solos from the record is a free lesson from an infinitely patient, very accomplished teacher whose work the producers pay handsomely to have on their product.Replicating what's on the jukebox makes my bandleader happy and keeps me working!

[Jim Pitman]

On regular electric and acoustic guitar I'm bare fingered. I love the dynamics one can impart. However, I find the string spacing of a 12 string PSG to confining not to where pics. I can't pick fast enough without pics when it's called for.

[Samuel Phillippe]

[quote="Jim Sliff"

Most of the general public (as "traditional country that includes pedal steel" makes up a VERY tiny percentage of the world's "commercial music". Very little commercial music includes a pedal steel) think its an electric dulcimer or harpsichord or some foreign instrument because they have never heard of a pedal steel...because "commercial sound" producers don't think "pedal steel.

Most audiences only hear "good" or "bad" playing. Only other players have laser-beam expectations of xerox-copy playing of steel playing. And many of us think regurgitating "what was on the record" perfectly is BORING.



Chill, dude. Let the guy play in whatever way makes HIM happy. You're not the "Steel Enforcer".[/quote]



I have to agree Jim......I play every weekend in a coffee shop in a small town and am often asked what is that instrument? (Both the pedal and lap steel guitar) Once in a while someone will say "Oh a Hawaiin guitar, do you play hula music?"

Play to your audiance. They pay the bill......Me? Have to use finger picks but if someone plays without and it doesn't bother me or the patrons then play it your way.......

I also agree with his comment regarding "carbon copy" of the record.....be original and be yourself, if the audiance doesn't like it you will know.

Sam

[Dave Mudgett]

There are many, many threads on the subject of picks vs. no picks. I said pretty much everything I could say on these. Here's a recent one, and then another where I referenced a bunch of earlier discussions:

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=383036

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=372561

In the end, it's about whether or not you achieve your musical goals, whatever they are. But I would not recommend someone not learn to use picks just because they are 'unnatural', 'difficult', or whatever. I still find them advantageous in many situations. I also think it's useful to be able to play with or without picks. The more approaches I try (not just steel), the more I have found that mutliple approaches can yield interesting results.

[Bill Duncan]

It's your guitar, play it like you want. I play to suit myself, and I rarely like my picking. I've been my biggest fan and worst critic since I got one of these things.

[James Wishart]

Many thanks to everyone who responded. I greatly appreciate all of the input. Each player must decide for themselves which is the best approach.
The most important part of playing steel, at least for me, is to enjoy making music with other people, and to move the listener in a personal and intimate way. If I can achieve that with my approach to the steel, then I will consider it a success.
Thank you again.
Stay healthy.

[Lee Baucum]

If I can achieve that with my approach to the steel, then I will consider it a success.

Agreed.

~Lee

[Jim Sliff]

Many thanks to everyone who responded. I greatly appreciate all of the input. Each player must decide for themselves which is the best approach.
The most important part of playing steel, at least for me, is to enjoy making music with other people, and to move the listener in a personal and intimate way. If I can achieve that with my approach to the steel, then I will consider it a success.
Thank you again.
Stay healthy.

Wonderful approach to any type of entertainment!

15 years ago many here would have vehemently disagreed, Insisting that you had to alter your wording: "...with other people while playing within a set of strict and mandatory elements of technique, style and equipment types that please other steel players. If I can achieve that with my playing, they will consider it acceptable..."

[Ian Rae]

Jim's tag "no chops but great tone" is no throwaway. It's no use being clever if it doesn't sound nice.

[Christopher Woitach]

There is absolutely no “right” way to play, in my view. I’m really a guitarist by trade and training, and I was 100% convinced that I would use only fingers - I play hybrid on guitar, regardless of the setting, solo, ensemble, whatever, and have done so for decades. When I started on steel around 2010, I hated the picks, thumb, fingers, all of it. I didn’t like the sound and hated the feel. I started studying with Maurice Anderson, who told me there’s no right way, it’s just a matter of percentages, and in his opinion, what I hoped to accomplish on steel guitar would have a higher percentage of success if I used picks, and probably a thumbpick and 3 fingerpicks, but that it was up to me, lots of great players used lots of combinations of picks/no picks… he encouraged me to try his way, just to see. As it turned out, he was right, for me. The things I’ve hoped, and still hope, to accomplish on the steel seem to work better, for me, with thumb and 3 finger picks.

However, and it’s a big however, as was stated above, I think of my friend Sez, who plays chordal things on steel that made Reece smile, and other players with thumb pick only, flatpick and fingers (wish I could do that!), no picks… the only caveat is going to be what you’re hoping to accomplish might be better served by one choice or another, so it’s worth thinking about the goal, and choosing what makes the sense, as opposed to what is easy and what feels weird to you.

Full disclosure - I’m the last person you want to listen to about technique or even style on steel guitar, I play a Bb6 12 string and play 98% straight ahead jazz on it, so… just my perspective

[Bud Angelotti]

James, Try putting on the picks - all of them, for, say, three days straight. Put the picks on before you pick up the bar. Make it automatic for a few days straight. Don't think about it. You should be good to go with or without picks as you have plenty of experience without them. Now you will see the difference in technique and sound.
A good friend of mine, a rocker I might add, got really excited over a dobro type resonator guitar.
He played it, he liked it, he bought it, he brought it home and we played it along with my big Martin. Well, he couldn't fiqure out where the sound went. It could not keep up with one Martin guitar, volume wise.
I tried to explain to him, fingerpicks my lad, but he would not change his ways alas.
He returned the resonator because "it wasn't loud enough".
So yes - with or without the fingerpicks - but you gotta put the time in with them on, & by then, it's too late. Your using them !

[Fred Treece]

I think this conversation needs to stay on track with the idea that James (the OP) has made a conscious decision to move from playing with fingerpicks to playing without them, because he prefers it. It seems that some of the advice being given here is based on the premise that he has not been using fingerpicks because he cannot and therefore should be trying harder to do so, and unless I have missed his point entirely I do not believe that is the case. I appreciate that there are also many responses that favor the choice of arming up with picks or not is ultimately up to the player, for whatever reason, which seems obvious to me.

[Larry Dering]

I can play either way. With 6 string guitar I use thumbpick and fingers. On pedal steel I add the fingerpicks. The sound I'm looking for and prefer for steel is with picks.

[Ian Rae]

I wonder to what extent James has prepared his picks for use.

When I started playing I was using them straight out of the packet and I made no real progress until I realised that the tips had to be painstakingly bent over the end of your fingers until they're pretty much at right angles to your nails.

Then you can develop a good hand shape, and they don't fall off!

[Dennis Detweiler]

I started playing 5 string banjo during my teen years. I started with no picks, but soon realized it didn't have that plucking twang. Then went to finger picks. It carried over onto steel. The difference in tone between picks and no picks is kind of drastic. Compensating with amp settings might do the trick? Also, as Ian said, how picks are bent goes a long way toward good palm shape muting and blocking.