Your approach to C6h

[Detlef Webert]

Hello out there,

I'm looking for a good and reliable way to learn and remember all the different chords possible on the C6th neck using the pedals/knee-levers.
As you know, just one pedal does change a lot of chords in just one position. A photographic memory will most probably help as well.

What was/is your approach to dive deeper into it ?

Tips and tricks are very appreciated.

Thanks,

[Bengt Erlandsen]

No need for photographic memory. Pen and paper can be a lot of help to chart out certain things that is particular to the C6 neck. Just like observing things like these intervals.....
string 10 and 7 is an octave apart
string 9 and 6 is a maj7 apart
string 8 and 5 is a b7 apart
string 7 and 4 is a 6th apart

the 3rd and the 5th of any voicing that use those two string pairs above will also be easily be found right under your fingertips

Know what you are playing, not just the notes themselves but also which note is the root, 3rd, 5th, 7th of the particular chord you are playing.

Understand how this voicing can transform into another chord by changing just one of the notes up or down. Waaaaay more useful than trying to memorize all possible chords and where they are.

Decide on any particular chord you want to play, then find that particular voicing in as many possible places as you can. You should also be able play the notes of this chord on one string only or be able to vizualize its interval structure from low to high, or from highest note down to the lowest note.

Dont necessary try learn all strings at once. Focus on a group of strings and explore whats there, just like you would explore your neighborhood around your house instead of trying to memorize a map of where everything is located in the city you live in.

Also it is easy to play closed voicings on string groups...
5 4 3 and 2 (Am7, G A C E open strings)
6 5 4 and 3 (Am7, E G A C open strings)
7 6 5 and 4 (Am7, C E G A open strings)
8 7 6 and 5 (Am7, A C E G open strings)
Am7 might also be a C6 depending on the context and bass note beeing played.

If you play around with those closed voicings on the middle 6 strings (for now, ignore the two lowest strings and also ignore the two highest strings )
Then you will find it supereasy to play Am7 and all its inversions across the strings or up/down the neck with the use of a lever or pedal.
Combine those positions you find for Am7 with a voicing that use the same four adjacent strings while also using P5 & P6 ( it create a full diminished also known as a rootless 7b9 voicing) This will repeat every 3rd fret. Combine the Am7 popsitions with the rootless E7b9(P5 and P6) and youll open up tons of possibilites for easy chord melody or comping that is almost too good to be true.
P5 and P6 does a whole lot of other tricks as well but those can be explored at some other time.

Pen and paper is my best trick for learning notes/chords/scales and whatnots of any particular instrument combined with a little bit of music theory like harmonizing a scale which can be further extended to understanding diatonic triads or voicings with notes all the way up to the 13th.

Best of luck getting into the C6. Lots of fun to be found there.

a iim7 V7 can sometimes be just as simple as iim7 iim6
This one is supereasy to do on the C6. Make sure you know where that b7 note is and which pedal or kneelever gonna drop it to a 6th


B.Erlandsen
JCH D10 8+8

[Greg Brouelette]

Thank you Bengt Erlandsen for all this information.

I've been playing regular guitar (classical, acoustic fingerstyle, jazz, bluegrass) for about 50 years as well as mandolin, banjo, and Chapman Stick. I've just started playing an 8 string lap steel in high C6 tuning ( A C E G A C E G ) and I do find that I'm thinking intervals and triads way more on a steel guitar than I ever did on a 6 string. And I'm a big fan of Ted Greene so understanding chord construction is a big part of my playing.

I like how you pointed out the intervals between certain strings. Those partial chords are so effective. Many times just 2 notes is all you need to imply a much bigger chord.

I can't wait until I can afford a pedal steel. I will save your post and put it in my study materials. Thanks again.

[Bill McCloskey]

Pen and paper can be a lot of help to chart out certain things

I do this with Google Sheets and spreadsheet out all the various changes and compare. But there is a easier way. The SteelSideKick app is excellent. You can set up your specific copedent. Then you can just play around with every combination when you aren't even near the steel. https://steelsidekick.com/

[Roger Rettig]

Bill

Is that app just on i-phones?

[Tom Spaulding]

[Bill McCloskey]

Is that app just on i-phones?

I know it works on Iphones and Ipads. Other than that, I'm not sure. It is very handy tool especially for me who just started working with pedals. I can instantly see the effects of different combinations of levers and pedals which beats spreadsheeting all the combinations out which is what I had been doing.

[Steve Cattermole]

Check out Herb Steiner's web site "C 6 essay",he shows what chords you can get with the different pedal and knee lever combinations. It really helped me get started on C6. Remember C6 is actually 3 tunings in one depending on what bass string you're playing. Open position 7th string root you're playing a C6, 8th string is Am, and 9th string is F Maj 7 Have fun

[Tom Spaulding]

[John Poston]

I do it the slow and hard way.
First learn the basic pedal combinations and inversions for the major, minor, dom7 and min7 chords.

Then use those as a launching point, see what other pedal/knee combinations can get you the altered tones, where your 5 is, what flattens it. How you can lower the 9 or raise one of the roots to get the b9. How you can raise the 9 for #9. I do all this sitting on the guitar. Then I will move the inversions/voicings up and down the neck trying to change pedal/knee combos smoothly between.

Etc, etc, etc.

If I get really stuck, or want some more ideas I just search the chord name on the forum and look for old posts about it, that seems to work ok.

[Tom Spaulding]

Video clip showing the difference between E9 and C6 tunings. E9 vs C6

[Detlef Webert]

Dear forum mates,

thanks for all your posting so far.
As I can see, there are different approaches the way down the line.
By keep on posting, we might find out more about the various aspects to get into C6th.

Thanks,

[J D Sauser]

The core of C6th is the center 8th strings.
The give you 3 roots:

7th string = Root to Major chord (P6 makes in minor)
8th string = Root to the same minor 3 frets above, respectively 9 frets below (P8 makes it dominant (#9th). A C-to-C# lever would make it Dominant acorss the board)
9th string = Root to the Major chord again, 7 frets above or 5 frets below. (P6 makes Dominant from M7th)

I would argue, that the top 1st string "D", should be held in mind as the "guiding root"... "ghost root" to the minor chord 3 frets above the 9th string rooted Major (the relative minor). (P5 makes it Dominant... aka. "The Two Below"-position for being 2 frets below the 7th string rooted Major.

So, you got 4 positions, an AVERAGE of every 3 frets (Average meaning NOT exactly) in an octave, in minor, Major, and (see below) in Dominant of some sorts.

Then I would suggest understanding the SINGLE-note DIMINISHED Arpeggio across the strings, which is played bouncing in adjacent string pairs between two next to each other frets (NO pedals at this time to let that sink in!).
Then, youtube-study Barry Harris' approach for the diminished as the "mother" of 4 different Dominant chord on each of the 3 positions (thus ALL 12 Dominant, and later ANY type of chord arpeggio EVERY 3 frets!).

When you got that, you know more than many you hear playing on radio, stage or give silly "tutorials" about how to play this'or'that lick without understanding what's going on.

... J-D.

AND, join PF's FULL C6th course and work yourself to Jeff Newman's C6th Workshop and C6th & Swinging Courses if you aim to sound like our Steel Guitar Heroes.

[Keith Cary]

As someone else said above it’s been helpful to me to always think in intervals. The 1st, 3rd, etc. Figure out how to play I, IV, V in a two fret box. Remember you only need two notes to imply a chord. This is all non-pedal, by the way, which is the way I learned. (My two favorite pedals do the same as bar slants.) Once you learn I,IV, V in a root position go up to what I call the IV-V position 5-7 frets higher and figure out how to do the same. (The I chord will be rootless up there, as is the IV , V chords in root position.)— Play single note major scale in both positions. Do it over and over, singing the interval with the note you’re playing. 1, 2, 3 etc. Do it over and over. Memory and figuring is too slow. You just have to repeat and repeat simple stuff.

[Detlef Webert]

A hello to all out there !

lots and great information about the approach to C6th so far.

Perhaps we can gather even more ...

Kind regards,