Ongoing Fret Board Discussion

[Wayne Brown]

So I've been talking with Andy DePaule about some fret boards for a project I have coming up after the "Outwest Rare Woods Guitar " is finished. He makes these really gorgeous boards that are polished/chromed and brass/gold trim and inlays with the rest painted or silk screened. These things are really sweet. Tom Bradshaw also reproduces select different fret boards as well. With all the ongoing talk about different fret boards and ideas, that got me thinking. I remember the old MSA Super Sustainer guitars and some XL's had the fret boards that were silk screened on the necks. So what if you could have a simpler way to get the same result on any project guitar. I may have the answer. I own a vinyl plotter that I have used in the Outwest businesses for years and I got playing around with it the other day. These things are really precise down to .000 scale. Here are a couple of drawing pictures of a 24" scale fret board that I made to match a older MSA I have here. The pictures suck and are really bad but it gets the point across. In the 2nd and third pictures it looks like the scale is off... it is not, it is just the camera seeing the fret markers at a angle not straight down. just to be sure I also laid this drawing on my current project and they line up perfectly. Anyways my idea basically is any sign shop or vinyl plotter could make a vinyl fret board with there choice of inlay Stick it to the prepped or finished neck. Wood or Metal, and leave it as is or you can finish it ...for example spray lacquer over it and once it's level you wood have a modified MSA looking fret board. This of coarse is only limited to ones imagination. Thoughts?

[Andy DePaule]

Hi Wayne,
I'm a slow learning moron when it comes to computers and how best to use them.

You should talk to Jerry Gleson (Forum Member) about how he did his fretboards?
In fact I think he posted something about it a couple of years ago.
He is a friend and I talked to him a few days ago about it.
He told me that he does them on his computer and prints them out on vinyl using his printer.
His look real nice.

The method I've been using involves doing the drawings and then having a sign shop make them for me in Saigon where that kind of work is less expensive.
But that is, as you said a very different laser method, though I suspect the same drawings could be used.

I have a lot of drawing for both designs I've already done as well as some I have yet to try. Also have fretboard drawings in various scale lengths ready to have position markers added.
My are all 300dpi jpg files. I'd be happy to share them with anyone on the forum who would like to play around with them.
They would need to be converted back to vector files for making them by laser.

I may also start to make fretboards again in just 22",and 24" scale sizes for 8 string lap steels.
Maybe more as time goes on if it does not become too much of a burden.

In fact I was just going to post some I did 3 or 4 years ago.
I stopped doing it because too many people were not giving me the correct size and the mistakes got too expensive.
If you don't mind I'll add them to this thread?
If you do mind I will delete them and start another thread.
Best wishes,
Andy

[Andy DePaule]

Here are some fretboards and other items that I have made 3 or 4 years ago.











These are some samples of other items done with the same method.
This is my Mullen. I tried different styles until I found the one I liked.
Ended up using Gold because I liked Gold & Silver together.
The steel is all polished aluminum so I used the Roman Numeral fretboard design in Gold with Black Background.
I also replaced the names on the front apron because I don't like decals.



Here I just laid out the fretboards on my Promat to see how they would look on a steel.
Ended up getting a chrome Emmons replacement boards from someone who works on Emmons guitars and those look right for the Promat.


Here is one of my lap steels with the same kind of parts laid out to see how they will look.
All made by that same laser method.

[Wayne Brown]

it's all good Andy
thanks
wayne

[Andy DePaule]

Thanks Wayne,
More Virtual Samples here. I do the virtual images for two reasons.
First to get a better idea how it will look.
Second is because I'm doing them in Saigon I don't need to translate colors and where they will go.
That helps avoid misunderstandings and wasted money.

As mentioned before I happy to share drawings with forum members, builders.
Most are drawn as 10 string, for 24" and 24.25" scales. Need to be adjusted for 22.5" or other scale and width for number of strings.
If you know how to use these drawings and the virtual images thats a big help.

Here goes with the virtual images only. I will put the names of each style above the images in case you need one to avoid confusion;

At some point in the future I may offer to make these again for other people, but not yet because I just have too much left to do right now.

Sho~Bud Style:


Long Horn One and Two:


Horses & Horse Shoes.
I have made a couple of these but am saving them for a possible future PSG build:


L1 Style, After an old Gibson L1 Guitar adjusted for my needs.
I have made a couple of these but am saving them for a possible future PSG build:


Music Notes:


Nick Lucas Style:


Crosses:


Crosses Ixthus Samples:


Last here is my CELTIC STYLE. I've not yet done the virtual images because it's so tedious to fill in all the little parts in the celtic knots with the colors:


Send me a pm or e-mail with your e-mail address and I will send whatever style you need in a full size 300dpi outline drawing.
You will need to convert the drawings to vector files for some shops to do.

[John Hyland]

@andy de Paul
Andy I’m sure it is an optical illusion but the first frets don’t seem shorter to account for the offset of the nut rollers. In particular the Mullen G2. Hope I’m wrong.

[Andy DePaule]

Not an optical illusion. On all but some very old pedal steel guitars the strings come off roller nuts. Most are about 1/4" to 3/8" round and some set back from the leading edge of the nut. Since the strings come off the top center of the roller you need to deduct that distance from the first fret or else all the frets will be that much too far forward.

The same is true for lap and console steels that use a round bar stock nut or otherwise have the strings leaving the nut before the leading edge.

BTW, That was not a dumb question. You were very observant.
It was one major reason I stopped making these for people before when they got the measurement wrong and complained.
Some others had trouble getting their string scale length wrong.
There were enough problems to cause me to lose money that I just quit offering them.

[Kim Turnbull]

[quote="Wayne Brown"] Anyways my idea basically is any sign shop or vinyl plotter could make a vinyl fret board with there choice of inlay Stick it to the prepped or finished neck. Wood or Metal, and leave it as is or you can finish it ...for example spray lacquer over it and once it's level you wood have a modified MSA looking fret board. This of coarse is only limited to ones imagination. Thoughts?

That is the way Alex at Fulawka Legacy Guitars dealt with the fretboard on this early '80's Fulawka D10. The originals were decals with lacquer finish that had lifted off the necks at the edges. The maker of the new "applied" fret markers advised Alex not to spray lacquer on them so they do sit proud of the neck. Fulawka's later guitars have silkscreened fretmarkers. 2 before, 2 after shots.

[Wayne Brown]

Thanks for that observation Kim. I personally have did it both ways. I have used only Plotter Vinyl, not any other type of vinyl or sticker paper. The guitar in another thread i am running under "Out west rare wood steel" has that exact vinyl laid for my fret markers under lacquer with out any issue. You can also just lay the vinyl over a finished neck, which works just as well. The key here is to do a test piece 1st to see if the lacquer you are using and the vinyl are compatible. From the looks of your pictures they were not... just food for thought
thanks
Wayne