Convert Emmons LeGrande D-10 to SD-10?

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 31 Jul 2022 10:13 pm

I’m still very opposed to converting a guitar, I will not buy one nor will I play one no matter how feeble I get.. I’ll just find an original S-10 to play if I have too.
The main reason people describe is weight. I can’t see where about 6 lbs is gonna break anyones back and after a pad is fashioned and installed, won’t be that much.
The other reason is money. They take off back neck, sell for close to what a double will bring plus they have enough parts to sell and make extra money over what a D-10 would bring. Emmons push pull changers and bell cranks and cross bars bring premium prices. I’ve seen just bell cranks go for 25 to 50 each. Most of these are vintage instrument that should be left alone. It’s like buying a 52 Telly and cutting holes all in because it’s too heavy or repainting lips of the Mona Lisa because you don’t like her smile.

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 1 Aug 2022 8:17 am

My too Henry.
I think thats called a "chop shop".

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 1 Aug 2022 12:51 pm

It’s like buying a 52 Telly and cutting holes all in because it’s too heavy or repainting lips of the Mona Lisa because you don’t like her smile.

NO; it's not ANYTHING like or comparable to those AT ALL!!!! and your ignorance of saying all the back neck off weighs 6 lbs; proves you have NOT done the work; like I have weighed that amount of stuff dozens of times; putting it back for the pedal steel customers that wanted the back neck on.
Pedal steel guitars are CUSTOM MADE for a customer; they are not "Vintage" unless they are in the field of "one of a kind" or "rare number of quantity and now low availability" and None of your comparisons come close to the Instrument of Pedal Steel Guitar.

"CHOP SHOP"

Ha...Not even close to the act of Customizing a pedal steel guitar.
Ricky

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 1 Aug 2022 10:30 pm

Bill Ferguson wrote:Remember at the time Lloyd did this, there was no such thing as an SD-10.
And since Lloyd had opted not to be a C6 player, this was a viable option for him

However in the current and for many years market, S10 and SD10 has been produced in mass numbers, alongside the D10..

exactly …

“I can’t see where about 6 lbs is gonna break anyones back and after a pad is fashioned and installed, won’t be that much…”

Henry, it won’t, it’s just a pile of BS

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 2 Aug 2022 9:14 am

Rickey my friend, vintage only means old or of importance and I would say, any guitar built before 1980 to be vintage. The 30 year mark is used in cars, if over 30 years old, it’s vintage. As far as the weight, I’ve never weighed C6th parts but I’m more or less thinking push pull Emmons. I’ll bet 6 lbs won’t miss it far. Neck, changer, few cross bars and bell cranks. The pedals would be the heaviest part I’m guessing on a push pull. Wood neck Sho Buds would probably be a lot heavier.
The point is, even if it’s 20 lbs, still not a reason to ruin a perfectly good D-10 VINTAGE guitar.

Anthony Parish · Post by **Anthony Parish** » 2 Aug 2022 9:44 am

Henry Matthews wrote:I would say, any guitar built before 1980 to be vintage.

Well I guess that means my specific LeGrande is not a vintage guitar

Henry Matthews wrote:still not a reason to ruin a perfectly good D-10 VINTAGE guitar.

To be clear, I am considering removing some parts and -- if I don't like the result -- re-installing them exactly as they were. I have no plans to "ruin" this beloved instrument.

Henry Matthews wrote:It’s like buying a 52 Telly and cutting holes all in because it’s too heavy

Nah, it's more like trying out some lighter tuners on an 80s Tele.

I had no idea this subject would raise such a ruckus!

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 2 Aug 2022 11:33 am

So Ricky, Please forgive my iqnorance. I want to be sure I understand you, you have the experience.
So, in your opinion, If I had a, say late 60's D10 P/P, just for discussion, and I had trouble selling it at the price I'm asking, so I dassasemble the C neck so I can sell it quicker and I have a bag of parts that I sell, to, more or less, get the original asking price, is that a bad thing? In your opinion? Maybe you don't want to post a reply for everyone to see. This is after all a touchy subject.
And I know it's quite a "loaded" question, but I/we really respect your opinion.
Thanks in advance!!

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 2 Aug 2022 12:52 pm

Bud Angelotti wrote:So Ricky, Please forgive my iqnorance. I want to be sure I understand you, you have the experience.
So, in your opinion, If I had a, say late 60's D10 P/P, just for discussion, and I had trouble selling it at the price I'm asking, so I dassasemble the C neck so I can sell it quicker and I have a bag of parts that I sell, to, more or less, get the original asking price, is that a bad thing? In your opinion? Maybe you don't want to post a reply for everyone to see. This is after all a touchy subject.
And I know it's quite a "loaded" question, but I/we really respect your opinion.
Thanks in advance!!

Bud, don’t know if you respect my opinion or not, lol,and hope you don’t mind me answering your question and this is just my opinion. The only bad thing about what you ask is destroying a 60’s Emmons D-10.

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 2 Aug 2022 1:48 pm

Henry,
It's my understanding that you have restored quiet a few steel. I, on the other hand, have only repaired quiet a few. That being said, I have a question. How is doing a conversion "destroying" a steel guitar? For someone with the right skills, it's just a simple matter of removing parts from the rear section of the cabinet and adding a pad. If the owner isn't happy, simply put the removed parts back on. If done properly, the cabinet isn't damaged in any way. Neither or the endplates, keyhead, pedals, pedal board, knee levers, etc. I've never done it, and don't plan on it, but in your opinion, how does it destroy the guitar? Does it permanently effect the tone? Thank you.

Mitch

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 2 Aug 2022 3:11 pm

So, in your opinion, If I had a, say late 60's D10 P/P, just for discussion, and I had trouble selling it at the price I'm asking, so I dassasemble the C neck so I can sell it quicker and I have a bag of parts that I sell, to, more or less, get the original asking price, is that a bad thing? In your opinion?

My opinion on that scenario is; no that's not a bad thing, you own the guitar, you customized the guitar yourself hopefully in a good way; as in a bad way would be the Chop Shop deal, in a good way would be you are able to sell the guitar to someone that wanted a customized Push Pull like that and you're also able to sell the parts to someone that wants to customize their steel guitar with a back neck.
So all that is good to me, because there's so many push-pulls still out there. Now if it was the last push pull on Earth that's a bad thing, but there's so many pedal steel guitars, you're not ruining anything for anyone, as there's plenty to be had at any vintage they want.
Ricky

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 2 Aug 2022 4:26 pm

Henry, Of course I respect your opinion. I try to respect everyones opinion. In fact, the more I agree wit them, the more I respect their opinion. lol

Thanks all. I my not like it, but I believe you.

Bud

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 3 Aug 2022 9:33 am

Mitch Ellis wrote:Henry,
It's my understanding that you have restored quiet a few steel. I, on the other hand, have only repaired quiet a few. That being said, I have a question. How is doing a conversion "destroying" a steel guitar? For someone with the right skills, it's just a simple matter of removing parts from the rear section of the cabinet and adding a pad. If the owner isn't happy, simply put the removed parts back on. If done properly, the cabinet isn't damaged in any way. Neither or the endplates, keyhead, pedals, pedal board, knee levers, etc. I've never done it, and don't plan on it, but in your opinion, how does it destroy the guitar? Does it permanently effect the tone? Thank you.

Mitch

Mitch, it’s just the mere fact that it’s a D-10 and was meant to be a D-10 that a lot of players who play C6th could enjoy. The older steels, I’d say 80’s back are what I consider vintage instruments and the should be left alone. As far as destroying the guitar, it doesn’t destroy it. That’s more or less a terminology that I used. I just can’t see why anyone would want to remove the back neck off a completely good guitar. Maybe I’m narrow minded in this subject but makes no sense to me. I can understand why Lloyd did it as he had a very viable reason back then but now there are perfectly good SD-10s being made that could take place of your D-10 and keep it as is.
As far as tone, anytime mass is removed from a guitar, it’s going to change tone. Now whether it makes it better or worse would be up to who’s playing it I guess.
Now I have seen a lot of guitars I would consider destroyed, lol, like drilling a hole in top for Mike stand, stuffing whole guitar with fiber glass, drilling one inch holes in both aprons and putting an adjustable brace to put pressure on aprons. It never ceases to amaze me the things I’ve seen done to guitars and I’m talking about vintage Emmons push pulls.

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 3 Aug 2022 1:13 pm

Henry Matthews wrote: Now I have seen a lot of guitars I would consider destroyed, lol, like drilling a hole in top for Mike stand, stuffing whole guitar with fiber glass, drilling one inch holes in both aprons and putting an adjustable brace to put pressure on aprons. It never ceases to amaze me the things I’ve seen done to guitars and I’m talking about vintage Emmons push pulls.

Ouch! Sounds like a mess!

I understand your point of view and thank you for your reply.

Mitch