Convert Emmons LeGrande D-10 to SD-10?

Anthony Parish · Post by **Anthony Parish** » 29 Jul 2022 6:01 pm

Let me start by saying I am a decent E9 player but I want to become a very good E9 player.

I want to narrow my focus and increase the depth of my E9 playing. I may become a C6 player in the future, but that is out of scope for my current situation.

I have an Emmons LeGrande D-10 that I love. However, it is heavy for gigging and I only use the C6 neck/strings/pickup/tuners/changer/pedals/rods/changers as an arm rest.

Before I disassemble my D-10 to make it a SD-10, I want to ask what the COLLECTIVE MIND of the steel guitar community can tell me about what I am thinking about doing.

What should I do before I start taking apart my guitar?

Humble thanks.

Tony Parish

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 29 Jul 2022 6:27 pm

Knee jerk reaction.. Either don't do it, or get a S-10. You want to be a great E9 player? Take the time you would've spent taking apart a perfectly good guitar, just to make it lighter, and use that time to work on PLAYING that E9 that you love.
Plus - take it apart, and you will have a LARGE bag of spare parts with no use except to sell off, when they belong on THAT guitar.
Do you really think you will put all those C6 parts back on someday?
But thats just me. If it don't need fixing, don't break it on purpose.

Terry Elms · Post by **Terry Elms** » 29 Jul 2022 7:31 pm

Maybe invest in split cases or a case with wheels. I use a Harbor Freight pull cart to move heavy equipment. You may want to play that C6 at some point.

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 29 Jul 2022 9:48 pm

Anthony Parish wrote:

What should I do before I start taking apart my guitar?

Tony Parish

Think about it some more.

If it were mine, I wouldn't do it. It seems like I read once that by making the conversion, the guitar would only loose about 7 lbs. Not only will you have an endplate with an open hole, which is something that's always bothered me, but the value of the guitar will probably go down. I would make a trade of some kind for a SD10 of good quality, or just play it as it is. I've only seen a very few conversion jobs that looked really nice.

Mitch

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 30 Jul 2022 5:29 am

Sell the D10 and buy an SD10. You’ll come out money ahead and you won’t diminish the value of the D10.

Wayne Brown · Post by **Wayne Brown** » 30 Jul 2022 6:30 am

don't do it

LOL it's your guitar do what works for you.
thanks
wayne

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 30 Jul 2022 7:19 am

I did it for a customer and it turned out great and lost about 15#. It's your guitar- do what you want. I recall having to cut out the unused cross shafts w a dremmel.

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 30 Jul 2022 8:47 am

Yup, it’s your guitar and you can do with it what you want.

But you’d save a lot more weight going to an S-10 (even the case is significantly lighter) and you won’t have maimed a cool old guitar.

Richard Alderson · Post by **Richard Alderson** » 30 Jul 2022 8:55 am

Guitar Murder - Arrggh ! - Find a D-10 anti cruelty shelter where a loving home can adopt it. Ideally you can keep your cherished guitar to play at home and get a spiffy new (for you!) S-10 to keep packed up just for gigs. Your pocket book will have the final vote however and its your property. Don't show us a photo .... we probably cannot bear to look..

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 30 Jul 2022 3:13 pm

It should be jail time to destroy a D-10 into a single 10.. there is no need, there are a lot of nice S-10 guitars out there for sale. Please don’t

Pat Moore · Post by **Pat Moore** » 30 Jul 2022 5:29 pm

Noooooo!!! Dont do it!
Here's what ya do. Get a blank sheet of paper, draw a line down the middle from the top to the bottom. On one side put how many people that say don't do it, and on the other side put how many people say do it. The longest side or highest number are the decision!
Take the advice of many players on here. Split cases, or trade for an SD10. Someone worked hard to build that guitar, and they are definitely works of art and workmanship. DON'T destroy that.
Thx, Pat

Anthony Parish · Post by **Anthony Parish** » 30 Jul 2022 7:24 pm

Pat Moore wrote: Someone worked hard to build that guitar, and they are definitely works of art and workmanship. DON'T destroy that.

I actually know who worked hard to build this guitar. It was Doug Palmer who built it. He and I worked on it together. He taught me how to add and remove rods and bell cranks, change the copedent, make adjustments, etc. Doug, if you are reading this, thanks again for all your wonderful teaching, amigo!!

If I do it, I plan to photograph, label, bag and document it all so I could reassemble it in the future. I used to rebuild motorcycles, so I understand the need to be meticulous and organized.

Buying a second guitar is not in the cards at the moment. My son is getting ready to go to college, and with whopping tuition payments right around the corner, I couldn't justify spending a few thousand on a second guitar now.

Truth is, I really love this guitar. It feels right. I have had other single neck guitars, but they didn't feel as good.

I have never had the chance to play a SD-10 LeGrande. Maybe if I did, that would be the right choice.

Anyone in central TX have a SD-10 LeGrande they want to swap for a D-10 LeGrande?

Duane Dunard · Post by **Duane Dunard** » 31 Jul 2022 5:28 am

Please, please, do NOT do it!!!

john buffington · Post by **john buffington** » 31 Jul 2022 5:36 am

Duane is telling you the truth. 8 or nine pounds will not make that much difference, again please don't destroy a work of art!

Bill Ferguson · Post by **Bill Ferguson** » 31 Jul 2022 5:44 am

Plus, if you have a good ear, you will notice a change in the tone of the guitar.

D10's just sound better. It has to do with the physics of screws going into the wood. Sounds strange but true.

Johnie King · Post by **Johnie King** » 31 Jul 2022 7:20 am

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 31 Jul 2022 7:26 am

Typically if I get in a D12 it ends up as an SD12 as D12's are very tough to sell- as well as usually very heavy and removing the back neck and associated hardware generally lightens them 16-18#.

Johnie King · Post by **Johnie King** » 31 Jul 2022 7:32 am

Careful Jim conversion of a 12 string carries the same felony charge as a d10 conversion.

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 31 Jul 2022 7:45 am

A bit on the rabid side maybe?

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 31 Jul 2022 9:17 am

Ok this just in from Lloyd Green himself. He wanted to pass along his experience in history.

“Step back, take a deep breath, and think of the reaction I received in 1971 when I walked into Sho-Bud and told Shot Jackson I wanted to take the C6th off my Baldwin-Sho-Bud and put a pad in it’s place to have a resting spot for my arms!
No one had ever proposed such a heretical idea to him nor any other steel builder I guess. Well, he went ballistic saying all the things many of you have restated and much more; said I was crazy, would ruin the value of the steel, nobody would ever buy such a joke. I was afraid he would have a stroke right in front of me.
Shot said I’ll build you whatever you want; double-neck, single, triple, anything…but I won’t ruin this steel that way.
But…I knew what I wanted, I persisted, and he finally after about an hour decided to let one of the workers take the parts off, telling the guy to put them in a bag and stick them in a cabinet saying ,”Lloyd’ll be back in 3 days wanting the parts put back on after he regains his senses”!
Well, I didn’t and I wasn’t trying to change the world. I knew what I wanted for my playing and recording sessions.
It wasn’t but a few days and most of the steel players in Nashville came by the studios where I would be recording to see the “You’re going to hell for this” blasphemous desecration! Within a few weeks steel players around the world were calling me, others driving to Nashville to see my ‘contraband steel’.
By late 1972 or early 1973 I had gone from insanity to genius in Shot’s eyes when he called one day and asked me come by and talk about making a ‘model’. We came to an agreement, signed a contract with Shot’s admonition that there would never be any name on a Sho-Bud except Buddy Emmons…and Shot’s. I didn’t give a damn because I knew it was a good and original idea that would interest some players around the world and all players should at least have that option.
He said “Get with David and come up with a name for the steel.”
Thus the LDG Sho-Bud was born May 9th,1973 and I suppose within a year every steel manufacturer in the world offered a SD-10.
They weren’t/aren’t for everyone but now any player who wants one can have one.”

Lloyd

More insert history that me and Lloyd discussed.

We should have added that my Baldwin Sho-bud was the prototype for the LDG for almost two years with the pad on it before the first and second LDGs (mine & yours) were built in ’73. From 1970-’73 every single record and album I recorded was with one or the other incarnations of that steel; Mel Street, Faron, Freddie Hart, Pride….
That was the neutered former D-10 everybody was seeing when they came by the studios or saw pictures of it, not the LDG.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 31 Jul 2022 9:18 am

I've thought about converting one or another of my D-10's (a '70 MSA Classic and a '78 Sho-Bud Super Pro), but the project(s) have been on the back burner.

...After reading this thread, I'm thinking cold storage might be a better place for the idea.

Carl Williams · Post by **Carl Williams** » 31 Jul 2022 9:36 am

Always really appreciate it Ricky when you pass along Lloyd’s input. Very interesting how Shot reacted to Lloyd’s “radical” suggestion to think out of the box/cabinet

Love my SD-10….and not using rusty C-6th strings as an armrest to support my E-9th hacking

. P.S. More power to those who do however

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 31 Jul 2022 9:53 am

Thanks Ricky ! Thanks Lloyd !
So - "Step back, take a deep breath"
Maybe with time you will find a sd 10 to suit your needs.
I'm looking at a SB Crossover up here in jersey.
Needs alot of work, but it's in decent shape from what I can tell with my untrained eye.
Point is, it's a beast. If I do decide to buy, "fix" it, it'll sit right next to our grand piano. It would be a "house guitar".
Any how, Lloyd has already shown us a way. The choice is of course, yours.

Bill Ferguson · Post by **Bill Ferguson** » 31 Jul 2022 12:10 pm

Remember at the time Lloyd did this, there was no such thing as an SD-10.
And since Lloyd had opted not to be a C6 player, this was a viable option for him

However in the current and for many years market, S10 and SD10 has been produced in mass numbers, alongside the D10.

Personally I would never disassemble a D10 into a SD10 for many reasons.

I feel sure there is an SD10 out there that someone would trade for a D10, especially if you were looking at an even trade.

You also said that you had never played a LeGrande SD10. It would definitely be worth your while to find someone that has one and try it out before proceeding to dismantle this D10. Even though you have played other SD10's, it might not be comfortable to you on the LeGrande.

I remember a few years back, my very close friend, Larry Sasser, did this to his LeGrande. He was very dissatsfied with the results. He was so used to having his forearm rest on the C6 strings, it changed his playing perspective and he told me that it absolutely wrecked the tone of the steel. Albeit, Larry had one of the best ears for tone of any steeler I know. Larry did not even bother to reassemble the steel. He sold it and the "bag" of parts within a month or so and went back to a D10.

Now, Jay Dee Maness got Larry's D10 Push Pull after Larry passed away. Jay Dee also always said that a D10 (Black of course) sounded better than an SD10. However because of the weight, Jay Dee had no option but to do this exact thing to his 67 Emmons Push Pull. Is he happy with it? He told me that there was a definite difference, but due to back problems and age (like all of us) he had no choice as there is no such thing as a 67 Emmons Push Pull SD10.

I too play very little C6 (or E9 for that matter) and have considered buying an SD10 for the weight factor. I tried a couple of LeGrandes and also Carter SD10's and were happy with none of them, for my preference. So I will just continue to use the C6 strings to rest my arms and maybe play a couple of tunes on C6 (if I ever get to play again) and be happy.

Ultimately the choice is yours, but from my experience, I would ponder on it for a long time before making that committment to take the steel apart. Heck, while you are pondering, an SD10 might just pop up for you to make the trade or sell your D10 and buy an SD10 and pocket the change.

Opinions are a dime a dozen, but this is mine.

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 31 Jul 2022 12:59 pm

Anthony Parish wrote:
I actually know who worked hard to build this guitar. It was Doug Palmer who built it. He and I worked on it together. He taught me how to add and remove rods and bell cranks, change the copedent, make adjustments, etc.

If I do it, I plan to photograph, label, bag and document it all so I could reassemble it in the future. I used to rebuild motorcycles, so I understand the need to be meticulous and organized.

Truth is, I really love this guitar. It feels right. I have had other single neck guitars, but they didn't feel as good.

After reading your second post, you evidently have the mechanical skills necessary to make the conversion. I didn't know that when I made my first reply. And since you really love this guitar, and it feels right, another SD10 might not satisfy you. If you never plan on selling the guitar, resale value is not important. And who knows....you may enjoy the guitar even more after the conversion. Like some have said, it may effect the tone. I don't know. I have a D10 that is special to me. If I had to choose between selling it or converting it to a SD10, I would definitely convert it. It will never be for sale if at all avoidable. Whatever you decide, good luck!

Mitch

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