Why not A6???
Moderator: Brad Bechtel
-
- Posts: 605
- Joined: 23 Oct 2021 11:58 am
- Location: Nebraska, USA
Why not A6???
I am curious how C6 became the most popular tuning for steel guitar? Maybe this question has been asked many times before, sorry if this is very redundant. From what I know of steel guitar history, Open A tuning was the first most widely used tuning AC#EAC#E. So in my mind A6 would have been the logical development. C6 and A6 are the same intervals I know but, I just love the slightly lower timbre of A6. Being a standard guitar player, It just feels more natural as well. Another thing I find odd is how perfect A6 is as a second neck on a double neck, where E13 tunings are seemingly the next most popular. (A being the IV chord) Yet most of the players you hear about choose C6 as the second neck. It is the same in pedal steel, although I guess in pedal steel you do have some A6 in pedals down mode.
I recently went back to 8 string A6 tuning after a long, frustrating stretch with 10 string E13, and it was like putting on slippers after a long day at work, or sleeping in your own bed after staying in a bunch of cheap hotels. (Not that E13 is a cheap hotel!) In the future I hope to continue work on E13, probably as an 8 string tuning, but for the time being A6 just feels like home.
On a side note I think I figured out a simple copedant that changes E13 into A6 and B11, but that isn't something to discuss here
I recently went back to 8 string A6 tuning after a long, frustrating stretch with 10 string E13, and it was like putting on slippers after a long day at work, or sleeping in your own bed after staying in a bunch of cheap hotels. (Not that E13 is a cheap hotel!) In the future I hope to continue work on E13, probably as an 8 string tuning, but for the time being A6 just feels like home.
On a side note I think I figured out a simple copedant that changes E13 into A6 and B11, but that isn't something to discuss here
Last edited by Tim Toberer on 25 May 2022 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Samuel Phillippe
- Posts: 329
- Joined: 10 Jan 2022 8:11 am
- Location: Douglas Michigan, USA
-
- Posts: 453
- Joined: 17 Jan 2008 3:22 pm
- Location: Orlando, Fl
A6
I think because it was too bassy. I love it as well, would love to live in A6, but I really wanted to go to single neck so E13 won out. Bright, snappy, just a bit more versatile. LOVE the deeper bass tone of A6! But practicality for the set of music I am mostly playing E13 won out. I agree though, A6 is super. Also I think they split the difference with C6, its kinda right in the middle isn't it. Between A and E. I wanted to ditch the double neck so I went with E.
Last edited by Tom Cooper on 25 May 2022 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
I think B6 would have been a great tuning….
Anyway, I agree, the tuning is great, especially in the hands of Herb Remington and Billy Hew Len, but it’s register gets a little muddy for me. And the 6 string version, well I just prefer to have the root on the bottom string. I do a lot of playing down there.
Anyway, I agree, the tuning is great, especially in the hands of Herb Remington and Billy Hew Len, but it’s register gets a little muddy for me. And the 6 string version, well I just prefer to have the root on the bottom string. I do a lot of playing down there.
- Jack Hanson
- Posts: 5024
- Joined: 19 Jun 2012 3:42 pm
- Location: San Luis Valley, USA
- Dane Carlson
- Posts: 37
- Joined: 6 Jan 2015 5:40 pm
- Location: Bay Area, California
Coming from bluegrass Dobro as my first slide instrument, having the top 3 strings in the same relative tuning is making it easier for me to learn to play in that tuning because I know the neck. I'm loving the ability to play minors in A6 tuning and I don't miss having the root on the bottom because the playing style is quite different from the "scalar" style of bluegrass.
I tried G6 (with the 3rd on top) and it was very difficult for me to deal with learning new note positions and missing the 5th on top.
I tried G6 (with the 3rd on top) and it was very difficult for me to deal with learning new note positions and missing the 5th on top.
- Daniel Baston
- Posts: 117
- Joined: 27 Aug 2018 9:32 am
- Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: the relationship between the two tunings on a double neck. If you have C6 on one neck, you could always try pitching your 13th tuning to G. Then you have the same relationship as you would between A6 and E13. Seems like not a popular thing to do either though? If you have an E13 variant with a high G# though, well that might limit your options to go higher. You might want to wear safety glasses before trying to bring a 1st string higher than G# up to pitch .
- Carl McLaughlin
- Posts: 566
- Joined: 9 Sep 2010 10:25 am
- Location: St.Stephen,New Brunswick,Can
Double neck tunings
I am an amature but for what its worth, i use C6 on the top neck and Open Dobro G. i found over all the easiest to learn. Just my 2 cents worth.
Carl
Keep steelin
Carl
Keep steelin
Now have a SX 6 string lap in G,.A Tele plus telecaster, Larrivee acoustic.Also have a Fender resonator guitar with new Quarterman cone and spider,and an Allan tailpiece.Playing through a Fender Super Champ XD,using a little delay on the amp and a Harmonix Holy Grail Echo pedal,set on Hall turned to about 1pm.Just got a Fender Dual 6 Stringmaster style. Bought a Yamaha FGX5 Recently and love it.
- David Matzenik
- Posts: 1685
- Joined: 8 Oct 2004 12:01 am
- Location: Cairns, on the Coral Sea
The retune from A6 to B11 is a bit easy than with C6. You may ask why they bother putting a high G on C6 when you end up with the same intervals as A6. The high G helps to emulate the pedal steel sound, if that floats your boat. But the choice of A6-C6 also depends on the key you want to play in and how much fret space you want behind the tonic. Billy Hew Len had quite bit to say about the choice. The Hal Smith archive is online.
Check out Eddie Rivers on A6.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rARCcW3I0K4&t=258s
Check out Eddie Rivers on A6.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rARCcW3I0K4&t=258s
Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother.
- Bob Watson
- Posts: 1533
- Joined: 30 Aug 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.
I like the fact that I can get an open Am triad on a C6 tuning as opposed to an F# minor triads on an A6 tuning. C Major and Am are both common keys. I can't think of the last time I played a song that was in the key of F#m. I have an 8 string Dobro that I had thought about tuning to an A6 since it is such a popular tuning, but I decided on G6 because it gives me an Em triad, another very popular key. I can use a capo on the Dobro to get an open A6 tuning if I want it for some reason.
I like A6th for certain songs. In general, I prefer the third on top and the root on the bottom of C6th. Certain tunes lay out very well in A6th and you can't argue with what Herb got out of it.
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com
-
- Posts: 605
- Joined: 23 Oct 2021 11:58 am
- Location: Nebraska, USA
I like to tweak the low F# cause I find that note not very useful. Usually I tune down to E for easy alternating bass. It also creates the same relationship and range as a standard guitar. I can see why having the 3rd on top is preferable to some, it really changes the feel of the tuning. In the future I am most likely going down the acoustic path so having the 5th on top like Dobro is appealing. I see a 7 or 8 string reso in my future. I also want to try learning some Dob Dunn solos, so A6 just seems to make sense right now. The Eddie Rivers lessons are amazing and definitely got me playing quickly. I will be re-watching those! Here is an A6 hack tuning I mentioned in another thread if anyone is interested. E-F#-A-C#-E-A-C#-E. It seems like a great 8 string tuning for people who already play 6 string G since the top 6 strings are the same intervals. I am loving this one also!
I found a bunch of old threads relating to the question and it seems it is probably a good idea to learn both at some point. Thanks for all the insight! For me the important thing is to feel like I am progressing.
I found a bunch of old threads relating to the question and it seems it is probably a good idea to learn both at some point. Thanks for all the insight! For me the important thing is to feel like I am progressing.
- Dave Mudgett
- Moderator
- Posts: 9648
- Joined: 16 Jul 2004 12:01 am
- Location: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
Why not A6? No reason, as far as I'm concerned. I probably use it more than anything when I'm playing without pedals. These days, I often play a fair amount of Western Swing material, where A6 really sounds and feels right to me and I use the 5th on top a lot. Since I play pedal steel, I'm really not trying to emulate pedal steel when playing without pedals, and I tend to find the high G or G# a bit washed out on C6 or E13. If I'm just carrying E9 pedal steel, I often re-tune the bottom two strings and press A&B pedals to get a pretty complete no-pedals A6 with the root on the bottom string.
On 8-string, I often re-tune between A6 = (lo-hi) F# A C# E F# A C# E and C6 = G A C E G A C E, which works perfectly with the same string gauges. Advantage A6 when going to A6/F#7 = F# A# C# E F# A C# E, which puts the root on the bottom string and the normal 6-string A6 on the top 6 strings, as opposed to C6 on only the top 5 strings for C6/A7.
I like the low tunings. My 8-string resonator has, nominally, G6 = E G B D E G B D. Tuning the low G to G# to give G6/E7 = E G# B D E G B D gives a nice twist. As a guitar/slide guitar player, this doesn't feel too low to me either.
Of course, this is all subject to personal preference and what is being played.
Yes, I agree. A 6th tuning that doesn't go down at least to the low root feels pretty limited to me. And A6 without the high E (which, if included, puts the 3rd on the bottom string of a 6-stringer) is missing too much of the high end for me. My response has basically been to ditch most of my 6-strings.And the 6 string version, well I just prefer to have the root on the bottom string.
On 8-string, I often re-tune between A6 = (lo-hi) F# A C# E F# A C# E and C6 = G A C E G A C E, which works perfectly with the same string gauges. Advantage A6 when going to A6/F#7 = F# A# C# E F# A C# E, which puts the root on the bottom string and the normal 6-string A6 on the top 6 strings, as opposed to C6 on only the top 5 strings for C6/A7.
I like the low tunings. My 8-string resonator has, nominally, G6 = E G B D E G B D. Tuning the low G to G# to give G6/E7 = E G# B D E G B D gives a nice twist. As a guitar/slide guitar player, this doesn't feel too low to me either.
Of course, this is all subject to personal preference and what is being played.
-
- Posts: 506
- Joined: 21 Nov 2008 11:37 am
- Location: Texas, USA
why not A6?
I use A13 (A6 with low G instead of F#) and a modified B11. The high four strings are the same on either. My 8-string dobro has the A13.
- Allan Revich
- Posts: 1120
- Joined: 2 Nov 2018 7:04 pm
- Location: Victoria, BC
- Contact:
Why not A6?
I haven’t been able to bond with any of the 6th tunings. Neither C6 or A6. For me the answer has been a 9th tuning. G9 — GBDFAD. B0b uses a similar Major 9 tuning, GM9 — GBDF#AD.
Of course everyone has their own personal preferences. That’s a big part of the attraction of our instrument.
Of course everyone has their own personal preferences. That’s a big part of the attraction of our instrument.
Current Tunings:
6 String | D – D A D F# A D
7 String | D/f – f D A D F# A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database
6 String | D – D A D F# A D
7 String | D/f – f D A D F# A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database
-
- Posts: 605
- Joined: 23 Oct 2021 11:58 am
- Location: Nebraska, USA
C6 may be the most popular lap tuning but I really don't think A6 is that far behind it - even now. At one time, A6 and E13 was pretty much industry standard for double neck non-pedal players which makes more sense to me than a C and E based tuning.
I think the E9 pedal tuning developed out of the siatuation of A6 being the most popular tuning. It was easier to make a pedal that raised notes than one that lowered them so E9 was a good tuning so it woud easily raise to A6. I think a lot of early pedal players considered A6 (E9 with pedals down) to be their default tuning.
I think the E9 pedal tuning developed out of the siatuation of A6 being the most popular tuning. It was easier to make a pedal that raised notes than one that lowered them so E9 was a good tuning so it woud easily raise to A6. I think a lot of early pedal players considered A6 (E9 with pedals down) to be their default tuning.
Last edited by Jeff Mead on 30 May 2022 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 119
- Joined: 27 Aug 2009 3:07 pm
- Location: Lancashire, UK
I'm talking 8 string here. I have the front neck of my Stringmaster (24.5 inch) tuned to A6 F#,A,C# etc. but my single neck lap steels tuned C6, same intervals. I find that due to most lap steels having a shorter scale length it's pretty much like putting a capo at the 3rd fret of the Stringmaster. I also agree with Jeff Mead on the A6 & some kind of dominant E7 tuning for the other neck tuning.
-
- Posts: 816
- Joined: 4 Oct 2019 7:47 am
- Location: California, USA
-
- Posts: 455
- Joined: 19 Apr 2005 12:01 am
- Location: Texas, USA
A6 tuning
I believe that Herb Remington used A6 on his "Gold Dobro". Anyone know who own the Gold Dobro now?
- Jeremy DeHart
- Posts: 231
- Joined: 27 Jun 2017 7:09 am
- Location: North Carolina, USA
- Contact:
I've been playing around with arrangements for some of the classic hawaiian tunes(Moon of Manakoora, Harbor Lights, Red Sails in the Sunset, etc), and while you can pretty much do anything ever on C13, these tunes really just lay perfectly on the A6 neck in terms of simplicity. It's as though the person writing them had this tuning in mind. The other thing I've found about A6 is that it emulates what a composer typically does for string sections much easier than what you can do on a C6/13 neck. In to say that a lot of string section comping highlights the 3rd on top. And you have to think, especially in Western Swing, the Steel was used to substitue a single instrument in place of a much more expensive group of instruments (Strings or Brass). Just my observations.
-
- Posts: 605
- Joined: 23 Oct 2021 11:58 am
- Location: Nebraska, USA
Funny you say that because it perfectly describes what I have been hearing on A6. I haven't been able to put my finger on it till you said it. Sometimes it even sounds like a big band orchestra!The other thing I've found about A6 is that it emulates what a composer typically does for string sections much easier than what you can do on a C6/13 neck.
- David M Brown
- Posts: 902
- Joined: 15 Nov 2016 7:47 am
- Location: California, USA
- Contact:
- Allan Revich
- Posts: 1120
- Joined: 2 Nov 2018 7:04 pm
- Location: Victoria, BC
- Contact:
On 6 strings, I haven't really liked A6 (or C6) because there is no bottom end. But the 8 string version, F# A C# E F# A C# E looks really good. You get that F#m7 going on two full octaves. Do most A6 players use 8 strings?
Current Tunings:
6 String | D – D A D F# A D
7 String | D/f – f D A D F# A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database
6 String | D – D A D F# A D
7 String | D/f – f D A D F# A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database