8 string C diatonic tuning

[Marc Muller]

Had never heard of it until the 1950 Fender double neck I got last August came with it on the back neck. The original owner had that tuning on it so long I vowed to keep it on and give it a try. Wow, it's so great. The chords, the single lines under your fingers without trying. Had a breakthrough in looking at it when I realized it's just a piano, white keys from E to E. Just did a track with it through my 68 Princeton Reverb and the tone along with the tuning has it almost playing itself. Wish I could post audio here so you could hear.
Anyway, anyone out there use this tuning? Give it a try if not.

[Joe A. Roberts]

Yes! I have a version of it on the middle neck of my walnut Custom.
hi to lo: E C B A G F E C#

[Marc Muller]

mine is close low to high (sorry, just the way I think of it) E F G A B C D E

[Tal Herbsman]

Isn't this what Jerry Byrd came up with in later years?

[John Goux]

Mark right off I see C major, Dmi, Emi, and the B and F tritone gives you a G7.
Way isn’t this used more?
John

[David Venzke]

Isn't this what Jerry Byrd came up with in later years?

Byrd had a 6- and 7-string C diatonic but left out the D. Andy Volk provided more details in this post:

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... t=diatonic

[David Venzke]

[Why] isn’t this used more?

Because it's not strummable?

[Marc Muller]

Isn't this what Jerry Byrd came up with in later years?

Byrd had a 6- and 7-string C diatonic but left out the D. Andy Volk provided more details in this post:

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... t=diatonic

Great stuff. Thanks for posting. I will say, mostly all the good stuff I've dug into has been more single lines, not chordal or double stops in 3rds, etc. I'll jump to the other neck for that. It is doable on the diatonic neck but just a bit more of a stretch. Again, I relate it to the white keys on a piano where you typically don't play 3 adjacent keys at once.

[b0b]

Jerry Byrd's 7-string tuning omitted the D for a very good reason. He tuned to pure intervals (just intonation). If D is perfectly in tune with the G string, it will not be in tune with the A string.

[Tal Herbsman]

So aside from Volk's book there are actual JB transcriptions to be had from www.scottysmusic.com:



Here's one available on the forum:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... 4d91534941

Byrd's Next to Jimmy playing in his diatonic tuning that's linked to in that thread is as good as anything I've ever heard. A small miracle really.

Studying the diatonic tuning is on my to do list as soon as I can play C6 passably. So probably next lifetime.

one last comment: it seem to me this would be a great base tuning on PSG because you can use pedals to flat 3s 7's and sharp 2s and 4's and all sorts of other useful stuff. Any thoughts on that?

[Tal Herbsman]

Just did a track with it through my 68 Princeton Reverb and the tone along with the tuning has it almost playing itself. Wish I could post audio here so you could hear.

Marc: I'd love to hear your track. can you not link to soundcloud or something like that?

[Tim Toberer]

The more harmonic possibilities you add to a tuning the less "strummable" it gets it seems. That also seems to be how we arrive at 6th(13th) tunings, still strummable, with all the basics covered. Full E13 tunings like I have been fooling around with (including the 9th) are more like diatonic tuning yet still retains a bit of strummability. However, every time I switch back to a more open tuning, I realize how far I have to go to get comfortable with E13. I'm sadly starting to think about The P word (rhymes with medal).

[b0b]

Studying the diatonic tuning is on my to do list as soon as I can play C6 passably. So probably next lifetime.

one last comment: it seem to me this would be a great base tuning on PSG because you can use pedals to flat 3s 7's and sharp 2s and 4's and all sorts of other useful stuff. Any thoughts on that?

Been there, done that. Long ago. https://www.b0b.com/infoedu/c_scale.html

Ultimately, I found F Diatonic to be more amenable to pedals. https://b0b.com/tunings/fscale12.htm

But let's not discuss pedals here. I'd be happy to answer questions about these tunings via PM or publicly in the Pedal Steel section of the forum.

[Andy Volk]

To my ears, this Jerry Byrd performance really lays out what the diatonic tuning sounds like and the kinds of voicings and single note passages it affords. I transcribed it (the version from H-Fi Guitar) for my single arrangements on my site and man, it was a bear! Very unusual tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em4wv1mxg1M

[Marc Muller]

Ah, and I was just about to post what I did. But now, nevermind. ha. Byrd rules.

[Andy Volk]

I know what you mean, Marc.

[Doug Beaumier]

I delved into A diatonic tuning several years ago and came up with this demo of “It Was a Very Good Year”: https://soundcloud.com/doug-beaumier/a- ... eel-guitar

I experimented with the tuning for a while and eventually I dropped it. Diatonic tunings are not user friendly and require a lot of string skipping to avoid unwanted notes. Learning to play the tuning comfortably would take more time than I was willing to devote to it. And it would take seat time away from the other tunings I needed to keep up with, C6, A6, E9 pedal steel, G dobro, and standard guitar! There was no room left in my brain for a difficult tuning that I probably wouldn’t use much in my work.

[Andy Volk]

I remember that haunting performance well, Doug! Beautiful. I came to the same conclusion. I wrote a PDF book of arrangements and charts to help me understand the tuning but didn't make it a part of what I regularly do. For the right songs however, it can have a unique and magical quality that's different from all the other steel guitar tunings.

This is the only thing I ever recorded in C-diatonic several years before the book. It sounds hesitant because it was mostly by ear and I didn't know the tuning.

http://sndup.net/mhf7

[Marc Muller]

Since I like duckies and horsies, here's that song I did for a friend, minus the vocals. He sent acoustic strum with vocal and I added the rest. (bass, nylon, tele tremelo and lap steel) I'd never share to feature my playing but the tone of this old Fender through the Princeton is the feature here. Pure vintage Fender.
The octaves were done on the other neck because so hard to do on the diatonic neck because the bar can't reach string 1 to 8! All of the single lines and chimes are on the C diatonic neck. Nice song by my buddy too and I'll share when he's finished. https://www.reverbnation.com/marcmuller ... ida-no-vox

[Andy Volk]

Great tone and tasty playing, Marc. I really enjoyed it.

[Doug Beaumier]

Sounds good, Marc!