Looking for ballpark price for Fender 400

[Ben Travisano]

Hello,

I have what appears to be a ‘58-‘63 Fender 400 with four pedals. It is blond with a black frame and large, black, rectangular “Jazz-master” type pickup.

I believe it has stamped chrome pedals with the flat retainer springs. It does not have a roller nut and seems to have the hog rings for string entry.

I would be interested in opinions of the year of production, but I have learned through this forum that dating is not an exact science.

I am mostly interested in a ball park value of the instrument. It appears to be fully functional with some finish wear especially where picking fingers would rest. The paint of the body and foot pedal support seem to have faded at different rates.

Thank you,
Ben

[Michael Sawyer]

I bought one in '17 and one in '18.
Things have changed,but i got $1500 in the pair.
Now they both were unplayable when i got em.had to tear em down and clean to the bone.
I bought a roller nut and roller bridge from Jim Palenscar to go on the older one( same type you have.)
I put 3 homemade knee levers on both of mine.
They'd be $1500 a piece now if i took notion to move them.
But thats me.

[J D Sauser]

I think the the condition this one appears to be $1500 and up.
It may have it's quirks but the first version with the wide pickup and the changer behind the bridge without rollers, was the best sounding one.
Given that non-roller version had true-pitch-return issues, which were only really cured to te cost of tone with the final changer-in-lieu-of-the-bridge design.

Speedy West's unique very "electric" Capitol Records solo albums sound came from those guitars. And West Coast pedal-virtuosos never had a more exciting sound than with those guitars.

I am surprised they don't have the same fanbase as Emmons PP's. These guitars rocked!

... J-D.

[K Maul]

I have bought, modified, played and sold several 400s. One I got for $300 was found with no case in a crawlspace in a house a guy was demoing!
Most I paid no more than $600 for but times have really changed!
I see them on Reverb for what I think are outrageous prices($1200-2500), especially since they usually need lots of rehab. But….times HAVE changed. They can be truly unique and awesome sounding instruments.

[Dave Zirbel]

I am surprised they don't have the same fanbase as Emmons PP's. These guitars rocked!

I agree. These little beasts have a special mojo you can't get with any other guitar.....IMHO...


I paid $100 for mine over 15 years ago, repainted and missing a few parts.

[Chris Lucker]

In your case, your case may be the best clue as to year. But the exact year does not really matter more than your guitar's features -- which in my opinion are the second best. The best 400s in my opinion are the ones exactly like your guitar except with the silver mag alloy frame. But a black frame and silver frame sound and play the same.
What color is the case? Tweed, cream/tan, black or black with the shiny Fender logo?
You may have a mahogany pedal rack, which accounts for the different color. They were painted differently.

[Ben Travisano]

Thank you very much for your replies.

My 400 came with a brown tolex case (photo attached).

[Chris Lucker]

My guess is 1961

[Michael Sawyer]

It is definetly about as sharp as i have seen.

[Herb Steiner]

The discoloration by the control panel looks to me like it was caused by some liquid; water, alcohol or whatever.

[Jim Sliff]

As Chris said - 1961, and I'd guess early-61 as there's no "Fender" nameplate on the front, which appeared...mostly...on black frames from '62 on, with a smattering of '61's having them.

They're going for $12-1500 in that kind of physical condition - IF the large pulley's discs are completely free (not frozen together with white rust, and the changer has a fairly light feel at the pedals, returns to pitch quickly and you don't see caked-up or thick, greasy stuff on the changer fingers. If those conditions are present it will need a complete teardown, degreasing and buffing of pulley discs and contact areas on the changer fingers, lubed with DRY Teflon (PTFE) only and reassembled.

Oils on any older steel with sliding plates of any kind (like sliding plates on ZB's and especially Fender cable-pull types) that have been oiled over the use - no matter how thin - if old oils are not completely flushed out before every application it build up, part hardens into a varnish-like deposit and the balance is a dust magnet, turning to a sludge than really fouls changer action, return to pitch etc. At that point a full service is required - not difficult but so time consuming it can be very expensive to have a tech do it.

There's a large group of Fender players in the Facebook Fender Pedal Steel group, and we have several items in the files section that can be downloaded for nothing - including a complete "maintenance and lubrication" guide. You can also find much more tech info and current pricing there - we essentially moved and expanded my old Fender Steel website to Facebook.

As far as the date of manufacture the only way of precisely dating one is having a copy of a dated Fender invoice. The "Dating Game" consists simply of groups. And dates are non-critical as far as pricing goes - long scale/4 pedals go for roughly $200 more than short scale/4 pedals because of the tone and sustain superiority. The radius of the short scale fingers creates friction, which hurts sustain a bit, and tone of the longer scale length combined with the Jazzmaster style pickups has richer harmonic content.

[Jim Sliff]

I think the the condition this one appears to be $1500 and up.
It may have it's quirks but the first version with the wide pickup and the changer behind the bridge without rollers, was the best sounding one.
Given that non-roller version had true-pitch-return issues, which were only really cured to te cost of tone with the final changer-in-lieu-of-the-bridge design.

Speedy West's unique very "electric" Capitol Records solo albums sound came from those guitars. And West Coast pedal-virtuosos never had a more exciting sound than with those guitars.

I am surprised they don't have the same fanbase as Emmons PP's. These guitars rocked!

... J-D.

They DO have a huge fan base - we have hundreds owners, players and "hunters" on the Facebook Fender Pedal Steel Page - set up as my old free Fender Steel website didn't have a dedicated .com type site and was hard to find.

We have tech docs, cable soldering info, maintenance info, and hundreds of threads currently active. It was impossible to get any "traction" here with too many naysays calling them antiques not worth bothering with. Kelcey O'Neill, one of the partners of the Emmons company making NEW wraparound Emmons push-pulls, was one of the earliest members and got his c. 1961 8+2 "Sneakycaster #2" Fender 400 from me - and I got a '70 cuttail from him! We have a ton of fans of both.

[Donny Hinson]

That's an early (first-design) Model 400, with the solid-rod bridge and nut, and the round pulleys. Condition is excellent, so I'd put the value at around $1200-$1400 These guitars have a unique sound, are very easy to fix, and they're a blast to play (as long as you don't expect them to play as easy and be as adjustable as more modern pedal guitars).

What is the serial number? (That would give a clue as to the age.)

[Bob Carlucci]

That one looks really clean.. I would ask $1400, and take 1200 if offered.... Might go a bit higher if you find the right buyer, but as with anything else lower price means faster sale..It WILL sell, as it looks to be in great shape... Not too many left in that kind of original condition.. Hopefully that discoloration can cleaned up..

[Fred Glave]

I was told on the Fender forum, that the date of MFG can sometimes be found under the tuner dish on a piece of paper. If the guitar has been taken apart and worked on it might be missing.