Chord charts

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 4 Oct 2006 5:26 am

Has anyone ever done an Excel spreadsheet of chords for the E9 tuning? I know about the commercial chord sheets and the Emmons chord sheet/CD, but a spreadsheet seems to make sense so you could modify things if pulls were added. Just curious - I've looked around the web and the only things I've seen are kind of ponderous to use.

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 4 Oct 2006 6:05 am

Have you looked at this? I came across it just poking around. May help. Good luck, DS http://www.skobrien.com/ChordFinder/ChordFinder.asp

David Collins · Post by **David Collins** » 4 Oct 2006 6:23 am

Jim,

I just e-mailed you an excel spread sheet that I created and use for myself. Hope that it is helpful.

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David Collins
www.alpinesoap.com

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 4 Oct 2006 6:34 am

Jim S...what format would you like the chord list to be in?

1. The neck shown as scale notes for a particular key for the activated changes...you can look up any chord that you can spell this way.

2. A listing of chord types and locations...m7, M7, M7s4b9 etc.

3. Would you want chords without some of their intervals? Would you want inversions, and substitutions?

Different folk want the presentation in different ways/levels. Some want to "solve" for the chord, and some just want to look up the chord type and the associated changes and strings. Some would be annoyed with anything more than four tone chords, or chords out of order.

Therein is the problem...those used to the standard guitar diagrams are up the creek...not too practical for PSG.

Most "solve" programs ARE really spreadsheets, but prettied up with VBA or similar. Most of them are lookup tables...if the chord is not named (common chord) it won't solve it.

Back to HOW would you like to "see" the info? The program that I use does not have a "skin" to make it look pretty, but is an Excel spreadsheet and gives notes, intervals, necks, midi numbers, chord names (not from lookup tables but generated), and enough other stuff to be confusing. You can see some of the output formats on the PHOTOBUCKET site found in the LEAST HARDWARE, MORE MUSIC thread. WE have not gotten to the chord type/location sorted lists yet.

Wayne D. Clark · Post by **Wayne D. Clark** » 4 Oct 2006 6:48 am

Jim, This will tell you what generation I am from, but I can't tare my self from using LOTUS, I have release 5, in it's self will become very valuable on the "Road Show" in a year or two. But that has nothing to do with your question, Only to say that is the Spread sheet I am using. Yes I to have gone to the Spread sheet to work up yet another Chart. modified from a DVD by Gary Moore. Of all the charts down loaded and verbalized. What Gary did on his DVD, was clear up combinations including 7th's from the open E to the 13th fret. With and without pedals & Levers, as well as where to find the same major Chord farther up the fret board. Any way from that information I am working on a chord chart that makes sence to me. I have one From MelBay. very extensive on Pedal and Knee lever combinations that make up a give chord but does not put togather combinations such as "Whst is the combination for the key of F on the first fret. To think I had this DVD around for almost a year before taking a serious look at it. Well I have rambled on long enough. Hope to finish the Chart some time this week, My new insterment has not arrived yet and the old one I gone so No excuse not to work on the chart and get it done.

Desert Rose 3/5
Goodrivh 120
Nashvill 400

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 4 Oct 2006 7:54 pm

Dick - I've seen that, thanks...I was looking more for a quick reference guide, not a fill-in-the-blanks and print individual pages.

David - thanks, I'll check out what you sent.

ed - It shouldn't be as complicated as you made it sound. There are two commercial ones - one from Scotty and I forget the other, but they basically show major, minor, dom7, 6th and maybe one or two other forms for each basic scale note (A, B, C, D, E , F ,G) in 3 or 4 "pockets" on the neck, depending on pedal/knee lever use, and showing what strings NOT to play. Just basic chords - not add9, 13ths or other stuff that is not as practical - just simple, "here's where to find a D, Dm, D7, D6 in 3 places" chart. Maybe diminished chords, but that's even beyond the scope of the "quick reference" type thing. Buddy's is a very comprehensive list - far too much info for my use, and no position charts, just lists.

I'm not talking about a varable-tuning, unpteen variation thing - I used "spreadsheed" as a term because that's how most people I know commonly print out charts. But as far as it being like guitar chord charts - that's EXACTLY what it is, and it's what the ones I've seen appear to have...there just aren't any local sources and I hate paying 5 bucks shipping (and waiting 10 days) for something that costs $3.

When you went here:

2. A listing of chord types and locations...m7, M7, M7s4b9 etc.

3. Would you want chords without some of their intervals? Would you want inversions, and substitutions?

..you lost me anyway. I don't know what you mean about "without intervals" or inversions...or M7s4b9???

Like I said, I've seen two of them advertised, and looked at one months ago but didn't buy it because I didn't have an E9 guitar. Not complicated stuff at all.[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 04 October 2006 at 08:58 PM.]

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 5 Oct 2006 1:39 am

Jim,

After I got my first steel, I stumbled on to a course by Jeff Newman that had inserts that slipped under the strings, looked like the neck and had the positions for the the chords in the most common keys. The same for scales and even C6 sounding runs with the E's lowered. Back then I had no time,(USMC),and a family to raise. I was pressured by the the band I was in to come up to playing out speed real quick. These things along with some other Newman materials were the ticket. Not sure if this would help, but it was a way for me to jump start at least the basic chord positions on the neck. I wish I still had those inserts, gave them to a friend who bought a used steel when I thought I was done for good. Your spreedsheet idea is great. Charts could be printed from that to resemble the neck, like the inserts I had. Granted, that by passes learning the notes on the neck and the notes that make up the chords, but with the spread sheet program written, it's a small step to go to the notation for all of that. Just some thoughts..DS

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 5 Oct 2006 7:00 am

Dick - that's ain interesting aproach, but again not what I'm talking about.

I'm sure somebody has seen the 4 or 5 page chord charts I'm talking about. and there must be 9 dozen of them sold for 6-string guitar, with hundreds on the web.

I'm just talking about a basic chord chart, nothing more. No spreadshet variables - in fact, please forget I used the term "spreadsheet" - it seems to have pushed everyone in a different diection.

Maybe if I describe it this way:

Show the third fret and all ten strings. For a "G" chord, somehow mark the strings that are played, with nothing on the ones that aren't.

Then have the G chord at the 10th fret, showing what pedals/levers are engaded and what strings are played.

Do that for the 3 or 4 places a G chord can b played. Do the same for A, B, C, D, E, and F.

Then do it for minors.

Then for dominant sevenths.

Then maybe 6ths, diminisheds, and possibly augmented (although that starts getting too complicated for what I'm talking about).

Then, when you play a 3 or 4 chord song and have a chart with words and chord names, you know where to find the chord.

Forget grouping them by keys - i.e. ! !I V V7 iim etc. Just a basic non-flatted/sharped note: C, D, G, etc...and when there chords are.

Lik I've said, there are a couple commercial ones available - I'm just amazed nobody has made their own. It seems it would be the single most useful thing fo a beginner, rather than the overly complicated C's, books and chord theory stuff. I'm talking about a SIMPLE chord chart - something that's al over the web for guitar, mando, banjo...but I guess not for steel.

I'll just have to order one of the commrcial ones and wait.

Wayne D. Clark · Post by **Wayne D. Clark** » 5 Oct 2006 7:39 am

Jim, Wayne Clark, here (Again) I added a comment to you thread. I understand what you are looking for, the readson we use spread sheets it to get what we cannot find and creat something we can understand. That said I will git off that Kick. Do you have a DVD player. If you have a computer most likely you do, it just may not be close to your insterment, As I mentioned in my previous comment I have a DVD my Gary Moore that I think would really help. The name of the DVD is "HOW TO GET YUR MAJOR CHORDS on your E9th Pedal Steel Guitar" Jim I will send you an Email with the information I have. I do not know whether this is still avaliable. I did try the phone number and got an answering machine, thats positive. I am going to try an Email address, listed to see what that brings up. I'll get back to you on an Email.

Desert Rose 3/5
Goodrich 120
Nashville 400

Don Poland · Post by **Don Poland** » 5 Oct 2006 7:53 am

Dick, I have those exact fretboard layouts that you mentioned. Got them off ebay awhile back. Spoke with Fran Newman and she told me that Jeff quit selling them many years ago. He was worried that to many folks would "rely" on them rather than use them as the learning tool that he intended them to be. I am a very unskilled newbie at this point in time and they have helped me tremedously. They are copyrighted 1972

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1974 MSA D10 Classic 8+5, Matchbox 7A, Digitech Gen3, Nashville 112
If you ain't steelin' it, you ain't feelin' it !!

www.steelin4fun.com

donpoland@steelin4fundotcom

Wayne D. Clark · Post by **Wayne D. Clark** » 5 Oct 2006 8:11 am

Hay Don, Hope all is well with you. Got on the Chat room last night but it was late so didn't stay long. big group last night, you were there.

Jim, I sent you an Email but try this Web address, steelguitarvideoforum.com You may get some help here. It is M.S. STUDIO'S
web sight. at least I found it in the information I Emailed to you

Desert Rose 3/5
Goodrich 120
Nashville 400

Dillon Jackson · Post by **Dillon Jackson** » 5 Oct 2006 8:32 am

Given the thread, I hesitate to say this but I have found the Mel Bay E9 chord chart valuable and worth the wait and the money.

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Dillon Jackson
abiband.com
ZUM U-12, Carter S-10; NV-1000

David Collins · Post by **David Collins** » 5 Oct 2006 9:07 am

Hi Jim,

Now I think that I understand what you are asking about.

I can make one up, when I get the time. May be a few days as I am booked solid for the next 4 days for sure.

I'll send it to you when I get it done, and I may even be able to post it to oe of my lesser used web sites for download.

Do you want one page with all G chords, another with all C chords, etc. or would you prefer one page with all cords. There are several ways that this could go.

Let me know

------------------
David Collins
www.alpinesoap.com

Bob Kagy · Post by **Bob Kagy** » 5 Oct 2006 4:13 pm

Jim -

Karlis Abolins has a free program that does what you want.

It can be downloaded from here:
http://home.comcast.net/~k.abolins/guitarmap.html

I use it regularly to find scales, chords, try out new tunings, etc.

I think it's great; maybe you could give it a shot.

bk

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 5 Oct 2006 5:48 pm

depending on the complexity of your copedant you can get the same chord with the same voicings on dozens of different fret string pedal/knee combinations and even more if you play open strings against barred strings. it then becomes an optimization game of what sounds good, what combinations dont twist you into a pretzel and which are condusive to other related multible combinations that are likely to follow musically. even with the approximations of a standard in the psg world the differences cause havoc to standarized maps

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 5 Oct 2006 7:38 pm

Ed, the one I saw used a fairly standard E9 copedent and made perfect sense. And it was simple. Note - s-i-m-p-l-e. 4 different types of "C" chords in different places on the neck; 4 different types of "G" chords...etc. Not every possible option, but enough for simple "look and grab" chord-construction.

Looks like only one poster has actually seen what I'm talking about, and almost everyone else wants to make it some complicated algorithm. It's a flippin' quickie chord chart, not rocket science. Like the "Guitar Map" - it might be a great tool, but it's not going to sit in your case for a quick peek when you need to find a Cm chord (plus it's windows-only..not gonna run on my Mac).

Forget it. I'll order one. It just seemed like something most players would have laying around, like guitar players do. An as I've repeated several times, there are simple 4 or 5 page ones available - just not HERE. So I thought since what I saw was SO simple and made SO much sense, surely someone had made their own.

David, please don't go to the hassle - I can just buy one. I really appreciate the thought, but apparently I'm the only one who even wants the thing. Don't waste your time on my account. Thanks for understanding what I meant, though - seems like other just have a need to overthink this stuff into oblivion. And it's a great example of why beginners get SO frustrated with explanations - most players don't give simple ones, they need to show how much they know and bury you in irrelevant information...rather than READING THE QUESTION.

-out.[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 05 October 2006 at 08:51 PM.]

Marlan Smith · Post by **Marlan Smith** » 6 Oct 2006 6:35 am

I sent you a spreadsheet that may help. I know it is not what you are looking for, but it does show the layouts on the fretboard as you add changes or change chords. I found it as a freeware program for 6 string, but I modified it to work with the pedal steel.

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 6 Oct 2006 10:50 am

deleted.

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Mullen RP D10 /8x5 / Nashville 112 x 2 / American Tele and Fender
Hotrod Deville 2x12's
Thank God for music.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 06 October 2006 at 07:23 PM.]

Mike Phillips · Post by **Mike Phillips** » 6 Oct 2006 12:31 pm

Jim --

I made something like this when I was starting out. It was basically a representation of the E9 neck and I drew on there with pencil the chords in 3 or 4 positions. Each chord on one page. I found it helpful to see the "entire" fretboard with a few "markers" where you could grab, say, a C minor. All at once on one visual of the fretboard.

I could probably dig these pages up. I actually think I made it in a word processor program.

However, I think that the act of making these sheets was the biggest help for me because it forced me to think about where I was gonna find the chords. I did it while i was away from the steel, like I was using a workook or something, and then I checked my work and made corrections. In fact, I think it would be helpful for me to go back and re-do them now that I know more and maybe add note names or scale degrees. The beauty of it is, you can put whatever is helpful to you on there, and you'll be reinforcing your understanding of the fretboard as you do it. Like I said, like a workbook.

As a bonus, I can also use these sheets for tabbing out a lick or chord progression if I need to.

Anyway, I highly recommend going through that process, but if you like, I can see if I can dig up my files for you.

Mike

Wayne D. Clark · Post by **Wayne D. Clark** » 6 Oct 2006 12:35 pm

Jim, you can get that chart from Glen Rosse Music P.O. Box 2370 Glen Rose Texas 76043. of call Toll Free 1 888 935 0530 or Email at www.glenrosemusic.com. It's a great chart. It is a large laminated By Fold Chart. You can even spill your coffee on it if you a mind to. I for get what it cost but not much for the value. I'v done a little modifying of mine by adding a couple of notes.

Desert Rose 3/5
Goodrich 120
Nashville 400

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 6 Oct 2006 1:02 pm

As I said, I'll just order one. Wayne, thanks for the source - that's one of the two I had seen. I'm sure a lot of you live in areas where steel books are available everywhere...but not in L.A.

Making my own would take months. I don't have the theory background.