Tricone opinions please

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 18 Mar 2021 8:47 pm

Since it was thin wood, not metal, ben had to design a bracing system to hold it together under the tension of regular dobro strings. The National metal tricone only had a hollow neck part way up, and wood filler the rest of the way....Ben made it nearly completely hollow. Lovely resonance .
...three cones and hollow necks sound together like there is reverb and chorus built in!

Jeff Highland · Post by **Jeff Highland** » 18 Mar 2021 10:41 pm

Yes I have built Weissenborns before. I expect to have a learning curve with the tricone getting the structure right.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 19 Mar 2021 5:42 am

This one is a show stopper: https://www.vintageguitar.com/26786/nat ... -hawaiian/

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 19 Mar 2021 6:42 am

I think that one is called "the lily of the valley" model or model 3.
National made a fancier one yet called "the chrysanthemum" or model 4.

Erv

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 19 Mar 2021 7:48 am

ERV, the engraving is actually an enhanced, custom version of the "lily of the valley" pattern with a bunch of butterflies and other flourishes.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 19 Mar 2021 7:54 am

Andy,
Yes, now I see the extra engraving, nice!

Erv

Joe Elk · Post by **Joe Elk** » 19 Mar 2021 8:15 am

Truly A show stopper.
Joe Elk Central Ohio

Adam Tracksler · Post by **Adam Tracksler** » 20 Mar 2021 4:39 am

I've always loved the tone on this.

https://youtu.be/4c6EcEhPLdE

I know it's not a tricone, but it has a tricone-y sound to my ears at least.

Jim Fogarty · Post by **Jim Fogarty** » 2 Dec 2021 2:15 pm

What did you end up with, Andy?

Now that the Royalls are in-stock, I'm getting very tempted. Any more thoughts on those, folks??

Thanks!

Lee Holliday · Post by **Lee Holliday** » 3 Dec 2021 11:44 am

I was fortunate enough to have three tricones at one time, reality soon kicked in with space and money dictating something had to give and the Dobro was never in the same league but quirky none the less. The vintage style 2 is top of the tree, the Beltona is a fantastic guitar but the Hollownecks just have the extra that this forum is all about, so really you need a hollowneck, but beware they are not all great, so do your homework.

Glenn Wilde · Post by **Glenn Wilde** » 4 Dec 2021 7:45 am

Lee Holliday wrote:

I was fortunate enough to have three tricones at one time, reality soon kicked in with space and money dictating something had to give and the Dobro was never in the same league but quirky none the less. The vintage style 2 is top of the tree, the Beltona is a fantastic guitar but the Hollownecks just have the extra that this forum is all about, so really you need a hollowneck, but beware they are not all great, so do your homework.

That's a pretty cool mod on that Dobro, im surprised it all fit under the hood. I have a model 33 with a biscuit cone and like how it sounds stock but i bet it makes a nice Tricone.
I heard some of the very early Triolian's were set up like that but ive not seen one.

Mike Brenner · Post by **Mike Brenner** » 7 Dec 2021 12:37 pm

here's me doing some improv stuff on a Republic. I played a National tricone once and it was much more resonant, but this is a nice guitar nonetheless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MToY02Aj6I

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 9 Dec 2021 12:27 pm

Jim, I ended up doing nothing. Then out of the blue, my friend Bill Hardin sent me an amazing Brazilian rosewood/.German spruce Oahu-inspired guitar and it now has my full attention.

Glenn Wilde · Post by **Glenn Wilde** » 13 Dec 2021 8:17 am

Lovely style 2 on eBay right now prices are creeping up on these, no more $1500.00 style 1's any more.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/384554226493

Jeff Bell · Post by **Jeff Bell** » 7 Mar 2022 7:23 pm

So, I've been toying with the idea of getting a tricone, but was having trouble coming to grips with laying out a ton of dough for a vintage National. This thread has been enlightening, to say the least, and I made the decision to take a flyer on a Royall Triplex tricone. I was contemplating the Chinese import options and after looking at the popular Republic and comparing it to the Royall, it seemed like an almost identical guitar with the Royall being 1/4" deeper and I liked the look of the darker brushed nickel brass. Plus, the free shipping doesn't hurt. And, they are right in my backyard up north 30 or so miles. In messages that I exchanged with Royall through Reverb, the 100% all paid return policy for 45 days is reassuring in the case I just don't like it.

There's not a lot of info on these out there, unfortunately. In any case, if anyone has any experience with one of these, please let me know how you like it. Otherwise, I'll check back here when it gets here.

https://royallguitars.com/product/royal ... k-tricone/

Jim Newberry · Post by **Jim Newberry** » 9 Mar 2022 5:57 pm

That maple bodied squareneck Tricone looks pretty nice. I wonder if it’s solid maple wood, veneer, or “photoflame”. I’ll be interested to hear impressions of these guitars.

Jeff Bell · Post by **Jeff Bell** » 10 Mar 2022 2:59 pm

The guitar arrived and it looks great and sounds really nice. It came strung with Dean Markley flat wound strings 12-54. They seem okay in Open D. I've never used flat wounds with steel so I'm getting used to the feel. I do have some replacement strings on the way and I'll probably end up with high bass A or G.

For the most part, the guitar was in really great shape. It's obviously a Chinese production instrument, but I like the look and it seems solid.

One issue was with the saddle. The 5 and 6 strings are closer together than the other strings. Just under the T-Bar where the string spacing between 1 through 5 is pretty much 1.1mm and the spacing between the 5 and 6 string is .9mm. So, it feels strange with the inconsistency. I reached out to the dealer and he is sending a replacement T-Bar and bridge. He assured me that he checked the slot positions and that they are accurate. This seems like an easy fix, if it's not too difficult swapping a T-Bar. If anyone can give me any advice I would certainly appreciate it.

Jeff Highland · Post by **Jeff Highland** » 10 Mar 2022 3:32 pm

You don't really need to swap a T bar though that is only a matter of lifting it off the cones.You just need to replace the maple saddle that sits in a slot on the t bar. You could even just pull out the existing saddle, put it back upside down and cut slots at any position you want in the blank face.
But first check whether there is even a slot for the 6th string or if it has slipped out.

Jeff Bell · Post by **Jeff Bell** » 10 Mar 2022 4:19 pm

You don't really need to swap a T bar though that is only a matter of lifting it off the cones.You just need to replace the maple saddle that sits in a slot on the t bar.

That's what I figured. But, the dealer is sending the T-Bar and bridge and asking me to send the original back. I assume he will cut the slots for me. I'm glad since I really don't want to put much work into it to make a new guitar right. And, the string is in the slot where it is. I tried to slide it over to even it out and moving it back slips it into the slot. Is there a chance that taking the pressure off the cones and replacing the T-Bar can disrupt things, or is it just a matter of being careful about it? Also, if I was considering upgrading the cones at any point, is that simple enough once I get in there? Should I just try to get it done now, and for anyone who has already swapped the cones out, do you suggest it? Thanks.

Jeff Highland · Post by **Jeff Highland** » 10 Mar 2022 9:34 pm

The ends of the Tbar just have a tapered cone with a pin in the centre so they self centre on the cone, and are just held in place by string tension. Should all just be loose.Just have it on it's back take off the strings, take out the screws on the cover plate, lift it off then lift off the tbar. replacement is the reverse.
When I built mine with a chinese kit, It sounded good with the standard cones but I had to have the NPR cones.At great expense I had them shipped to me in Australia..............the difference to my ears was marginal.
You will get more difference with a change of strings.IMHO

Jeff Bell · Post by **Jeff Bell** » 10 Mar 2022 9:53 pm

Thanks, Jeff. That's reassuring. Is there anything I would want to look for once it's opened up that could improve tone? Will it be obvious if the cones are seated properly, etc? I spoke to a repair tech who works on resos at McCabe's in Santa Monica today, and he said that upgrading the cones would upgrade the tone. But if it's marginal to people who've done it, now I wonder.

Jeff Highland · Post by **Jeff Highland** » 10 Mar 2022 10:12 pm

It's really hard to retain a sound memory and compare. I wanted it to make a difference, and committed the money to do it, but could not really tell. Going from flatwound to roundwound will make a difference but YMMV.
It really should all be pretty self evident when you have it apart. If you do change cones you may need to drill out their centre hole a little to fit the pin on the T bar, I had to on both the chinese cones and the NRP.

Jeff Bell · Post by **Jeff Bell** » 11 Mar 2022 11:01 am

Has anyone tried switching to the Paul Beard replacement cones?

Jeff Bell · Post by **Jeff Bell** » 9 Apr 2022 8:28 pm

This week I finally was able to get the Royall together with the changes I expected to make when I first bought this guitar. I must say that I'm pretty happy with it. I ended up doing more work than I was hoping to, but not entirely unexpected work.

Once I got the replacement T bar from the dealer, I realized that it wasn't exactly right. After taking it apart I realized I could just shift the cones a bit to get the clearance needed to avoid any buzzes. I put on new strings, but felt that there was way too much tension. Maybe not, though. I'm trying to figure this all out, and there are so many factors that I'm unfamiliar with that could cause extraneous and ugly noise. The scale on this is 25.5". Using the Stringjoy tension calculator, the tension was 230-250 lbs. I fully understand my limited experience and maybe a few days of settling would've worked, but it felt wrong, so back I went to the drawing board. I ordered new strings for high bass A and followed the John Ely chart - 42-35-28-20p-16-13.5 (Stringjoy calculator estimates it around 190 lbs.)

I stripped the paint from the T Bar and ordered NRP cones. The holes in the cones were small, so I carefully opened them up a bit to fit the T bar. I broke the saddle trying to extract it from the T bar, so I had to fashion a new one. The luthier down the street said it would take him 3-4 weeks to do any work for me, so I ordered a couple of ebony tipped maple blanks from Amazon. After reading posts from various folks about maple being the best material, I sanded the ebony tips off and sanded to the proper thickness (all by hand). I used an exacto blade and needle files to slot the saddle and then I put it all back together.

Besides the saddle being a little too far to the treble side on the T bar, I'm impressed with myself. The sound is clear and loud and the sustain is greatly improved. I guess I can try to figure out if I needed to do all the mods or just a couple, but I'm happy with the result and will stop fiddling for awhile. I might slide the saddle back a mm or 2 when I decide to change strings in the future. Harmonics are clear and bell like on this, too.

In any case, I'd suggest it for the result if anyone wants to put in the work. I'd like to head down to Norman's to play around with the 4 or 5 prewar Nationals they have to see how close I might have come. Regardless, it's a really nice sounding resonator, IMO.

Glenn Wilde · Post by **Glenn Wilde** » 11 Apr 2022 1:37 pm

I just picked up a like new Johnson Tricone locally for a sweet deal, i haven't done anything to it yet but put a high nut on it and it sounds real nice. Its a newer one with Continental cones just like my two year old Republic so im just gonna do the mushroom mod, strip the paint off the T bar and make sure the saddle is nice, I'm happy with the Continental cones in them, they sound great to me.
The reason i wanted another one was that i really like and am most familiar with the open D-E blues tuning and I'm also trying to get used to Hawaiian A tuning, now i have both. I want a prewar square neck but I'm being realistic, and trying to buy a house so....

The Steel Guitar Forum

Tricone opinions please

Finally finished the Royall setup