Fourth Pedal for E9th

[D Schubert]

Opinions needed: If you were pondering a fourth pedal for a 3x5 E9th guitar, what would it be?

[Jon Light]

My E9 "4th pedal" is a zero pedal on a U-12 so it's its own thing (but it's cool).
But I've had two E9 10 strings in my shop with a zero pedal I dig so much I'm suggesting to a friend that I put it on his guitar. Lower 3 G#>G and raise 6 G#>A. Then you can hop from AB down to 0A down for a Mooney 7th chord. It also frees up the 1st string so that you can dedicate a raise lever to the full F#>G# without the feeler stop for the G.
But this does have to be P0, not P4.
Franklin pedal is going to be the most common answer, though (I'll bet).

[Roger Rettig]

I had the so-called Franklin pedal added on my D-10. I must confess it was mostly due to an abundance of bell-cranks and rods on the occasion of the last steel-maintenance session I had. I thought I'd try it. I've honestly attempted to assimilate it into my repertoire but, so far, it hasn't 'taken'.

I like the sound of lowering the 3rd and raising the 6th, as per Jon's post. That has possibilities.

[Baron Collins-Hill]

I'll add my vote for a Franklin pedal on P0.


Thanks,
Baron

[Scott Swartz]

I have a zero pedal with strings 3 and 6 G#-G, plus lowering string 9 D-C# ala Randy Beavers. The string 9 plus string 6 change is similar to Pedal 6 on C6 tuning.

On this same 5 pedal E9 guitar I have the 5th pedal configured to give a six string A6 fifth on top lapsteel tuning on strings 9 through 4 by lowering 9 to C# and raising string 6 to A and string 5 B to C# with the single pedal. I use no other changes with this, played as a lapsteel with slants. I have tried some other things on pedal 5 but is what I have currently. Obviously you need at least a triple raise changer to do this, for string 5.

[Andrew Frost]

There's a change I've been pondering for a while.

Its an "E9 boo-wa", that lowers string 9&10 from D & B down to B# & G#, respectively. Akin to pedal 8 on C6.

So when your Es are lowered to D#, you get a big Dom7(#9) rooted on string 10.

1 F#
2 D#
3 G#
4 (D#)
5 B
6 G#
7 F#
8 (D#)
9 -B# 👈🏽
10 -G# 👈🏽

I haven't ever seen this on an E9 copedant.
It would obviously extend the range of E9 and offer some triadic options in the lower register, as well as that great 7#9 across the tuning.

[Jon Voth]

Hey I have a question regarding Franklin pedal & placement-the 8,5&4 whole tone drop I think (or whatever Franklin pedal usually means).

Is it possible to have that on a pedal zero AND pedal 4? In order to be able to play both and eventually learn what works best, then disconnect one (or just leave it)?

Not smart enough about underneath workings if this is possible (though both A & C can raise string 4 up a step so maybe yes?).

[Fred Treece]

Jon Voth, I don’t see why that couldn’t work, as long as the lower openings are available on the changer. What we always here about the FP is it’s better at P4 because this or it’s better at P1 because that. Why not have it in both positions and get both advantages? You may have hit on a great idea.

Of course, if you still have standard ABC pedals, you are talking about one FP at P1 and the other at P5.

BTW, the Franklin change generally refers to lowering strings 5-6-10 (B-G#-B) of E9 neck a whole step each. On a U12 I believe it would be 5-6-9.

[b0b]

I like a very solid "D" note on my 2nd string, so I use the leftmost pedal to lower D# to C#.

I don't see the point of lowering string 9 on a U-12 to A on a "Franklin pedal". The "B" pedal already gives you that note on string 10 (G#) of the U-12.

[Fred Treece]

I don't see the point of lowering string 9 on a U-12 to A on a "Franklin pedal". The "B" pedal already gives you that note on string 10 (G#) of the U-12.

I think the redundancy of the target notes is the reason many players don’t work the Franklin pedal into their style. That, and maybe the left foot shifting technique involved.

The “B” pedal A note is right there on string 11 of an extended E9 too. For me, it’s the bending of 5 and 10 that makes the FP cool, along with having another half-step interval in the low register. Plus having a 3-note/major 3rd capacity on one string can’t be a bad thing. I’m not crazy about G#<F# on string 6 so far, but the FP is still pretty new to me and I’m just beginning to discover it.

[Baron Collins-Hill]

As a newbie starting to consider U12, I’ve designed the Franklin pedal into my U12 on P0 because I love the quality of the changes specifically (all those whole tone lowers sound so sweet to me) rather than the actual target notes they achieve, which are indeed redundant and achievable with other pedals on your average U12.

Thanks
Baron

[Hugo Knef]

I lower string 5 to A

[Andrew Goulet]

It's not fancy, but I like lowering the major 3rds to minors. It's not the most versatile change, but very useful, I think. On my D13, I would use such a pedal to either lower the 3rds or raise my 6th tone to a dominant 7th.

[Jim Pitman]

I second changing the 3rds to minor 3rds, ie strings 3 and 6.

[Chris Brooks]

I'm with Andrew and Jim: flat the 3rds to minor 3rds. This gives you not only a minor chord (say, Gm on the 3rd fret) but also a nice 7th chord (C7 on the 3rd fret with Pedal A engaged).

[Andrew Goulet]

Chris, I forgot about that I to IVb7 change! Get out the soap, because that's a nasty move.

[Dan Beller-McKenna]

A little unorthodox, but I raise string six from G#-A#. It does a few different things I want.
On its own, it gives a nice melodic 7th scale tone against string five, either when playing with E’s lowered and string 5 is your root, or when in open position functioning as IV (say you’re in D major: when you play a G chord at the third fret. This works better for me than getting that tone by lowering 5 a half step.
Paired with the fifth string raise B-C# on pedal 1, it does a couple of things1) In a swingier setting with Es lowered, it gives you the same effect as pedal 7 on C6, raising scale tone 6 and 1 to 7 and 9; 2) with string 7 as a root, and pedals 0 and 1 down, it’s kind of (sort of) (well maybe) a reverse Franklin pedal: you release the pedals for the double whole-step drop, rather than mashing the pedals (obviously tuning this is a bear); and two frets down from open position it gives you a dominant 9th with all kinds of two-string moving possibilities—all of the upper strings come into play here.
That said, it’s a quirky change to be taking up prime real estate, but it works for me.

[Andrew Frost]

Dan, that's a great change for the zero pedal. I don't consider it quirky at all. I've paired that string 6 A# with string 5 (B-C#) in lieu of a C pedal in the past and it works great for pedal 7 sounds and getting that F#7 voicing among other things. #11 etc. I think Cowboy Eddie has that to the left of the A pedal the same way you do. Are you lowering Es on the right? I think it would work best with that set up.

[Roger Rettig]

Dan - I have that same pull on my LKV. I love the b5 move pedals up and, with pedals-down, there's a useful 6th (with a 7th) available.

[Dan Beller-McKenna]

Yay! I'm not alone in the world! Yes, I lower Es with RKL, I which I specifically like because it frees up my left foot for just this sort of thing. Oh, no: I went there...

[Ian Worley]

I have the same change as Dan. I don't think it's quirky either, it's super useful in all sorts of situations. To me it's a Swiss Army knife pedal, I use it all the time for all sorts of different things. Dan mentioned several uses and there are many others. It also allows you to do some familiar things in different positions. I could probably write twenty paragraphs about it but no one would read it! Probably no one will read this either, but here goes!

I have my E9 guitars set up like a uni with the B on 9 and G# on 10, so really Eadd9, I also raise 10 to A# on my zero pedal. It's probably a little more useful with this tuning that with standard E9. I get the D by lowering 8 like P6 on C6. Not having those 4 whole tone intervals stacked up there opens a lot of other neck-wide chord possibilities and stuff, as most uni players know. I also have string 4 F# raise on a knee, this is what really makes the "reverse Franklin" on 4-5-6-7 work, is really useful with 4 & 7 as root two frets back, 9-10 work here too of course. You could also grab the F# on string 1 but it's not a comfortable grip.

Without the D on 9 (or without having to skip it anyway), the zero + A pedal + Es lowered combination creates another inversion of the open B6 chord five frets up, same as P7 on C6. Unlike P7, in that position, the separate zero + A pedal behave very much like the A + B combination on normal E9 -- holding A and squeezing zero gives you cliche "corn squeeze" 3 frets above, and one string pair over, from the classic pedals down position for a given key. In the same way, if you raise string 4 E to F# you get the split-pedals Franklin pedal sound where you can lower 5 or 6 independently.

and on and on...

[Andrew Frost]

That's interesting Ian, sounds like you have it set up much like a C6 pedal 4 change but in B6...

I too have the quasi-universal B and G# on the bottom of E9, with the D levered on string 9(B) by RKL.
I've thought a lot about a zero pedal that raises string 6 up to A#. I would probably lower string 10 G# down to F# along with it though. It would work well with the A pedal, for a low root on Dom F# chord, or as low 5th of Bmaj7... Alas, my Es lower on the left and I'm not sure it would be that ergonomic. I can deal with Es lower+A pedal but I think reaching all the way over to zero pedal in 'B6 mode' might be too much.

[Ian Worley]

I also have my E lowers on LKR. Using the zero pedal with it engaged is no problem for me, but it's really an individual thing. On most guitars the zero pedal is actually in the default position of the A pedal, so it's much the same as a typical 3 pedal E9 setup as far as the reach. Give it a try.