B6 Universal Course

Alan Cook · Post by **Alan Cook** » 11 Jul 2006 1:59 pm

Can anyone recommend a good B6th course for 12 string universal? I have converted All three Jeff Newman C6th video courses and Buddy Emmons Basic C6 I have Jeff Newmans old universal course and video. I just feel that my solo work is a bit disjointed even over simple chord arrangements e,g, 12 bar blues.

Alan

Tom Campbell · Post by **Tom Campbell** » 11 Jul 2006 4:19 pm

See Joe Wrights material. He plays E9/B6 exclusively. He has a web site with all his material/courses described.

Jim Hankins · Post by **Jim Hankins** » 12 Jul 2006 1:47 pm

Another thing you might want to integrate into your studies if you have not already taken an IN DEPTH look at, is the C6 modal study by Denny Turner in the "Threadzilla". In conjunction with the types of courses you mentioned, it really opened up some doors for me to develope a B6 solo approach.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 12 Jul 2006 2:07 pm

It should be noted that Joe's universal tuning is not necessarily standard. It was certainly different than my copedant when I was trying to learn universal.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 12 Jul 2006 3:20 pm

Just curious, Bill
What did you perceive the difference between your setup and Joe's that would get in the way of learning E9/B6? Personally I see Jeff Newman's positioning of the boo-wah pedal in the 4th position to be 'non-standard'. Joe does have 9 pedals and possibly some lever changes you don't have but Buddy Emmons and John Hughey and Doug Jernigan (and most pro players, come to think of it) have a few changes and pedals or levers that not everyone has.

Just curious

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
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Tom Campbell · Post by **Tom Campbell** » 12 Jul 2006 7:30 pm

STANDARD???????

Adrienne Clasky · Post by **Adrienne Clasky** » 12 Jul 2006 9:39 pm

Wow. I am really impressed by how much work you've already done. I'm curious, what do you mean by "disjointed" solos? Is this particular to the U12? Does Jeff Newman's course help you find your way around the U12?

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 13 Jul 2006 2:56 am

Larry,

It has been a while, but as I remember, the actual tuning, not just the pedal or lever combinations, were different. All I remember is that I bought his chord book for universal and it was useless for me.

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 13 Jul 2006 4:50 am

Alan, Jeff had a course for the E9/B6 U-12 tuning. I have his vhs tape, audio cassette and tab book. It's the only instruction course I ever looked at. When I switched to the U-12 guitar, I had a talk with Jeff and he told me this course would give me a jumpstart to speed up the transition. It DID save me a lot of time.

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Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 13 Jul 2006 5:17 am

If you can get through all those U12 tab lessons it might be time to move on to working with a more standard music teacher and apply the music you learn to the steel. The Jamey Abersold stuff is fantastic. You might as well do the work to get off the tab thing.

Another thing that you might try is don't use all the pedals just because they are there. Put your steel into B6 mode and play along with some simple swing and jazz blues stuff. What you will find is that some of the bar moves you end up doing are the same places you have pedals. Therefore you will get a more comprehensive musical picture of why the pedals are there in the first place.

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Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 13 Jul 2006 5:59 am

Bill,
This is Joe's setup (and has been this way for as long as I remember)

I agree that 'standard' is a relative and nearly meaningless term, esp in ref to E9/B6, but the open tuning and basic changes are what most every U-12 player I know uses.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 13 Jul 2006 11:55 am

I agree with Larry that the basics on Joe's and Jeff's E9/B6 copedants are almost the same. The main disagreement among universal players is whether to put the E raise and E lower levers on the same leg or on different legs. This also involves the decision on whether the E lower lever (that has to be held for B6 mode) should be on the volume pedal leg or the other one.

I think these days about as many universal players use Joe's choice as Jeff's. I agree with Paul Franklin that having the E raise and lower levers on opposite legs makes for smoother playing on E9. In B6 mode I find that holding the E lower lever does not interfere with my volume pedal use, because it tends to be a steady hold. But holding anything for long periods with my left leg would paralyze it for using any other knees and the far B6 pedals. So for me, Joe's choices work better than Jeff's. I have looked at both instruction materials and can translate either one to my copedant fairly easily. You just pay attention to what levers and pedals do, rather than where they are.

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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 13 Jul 2006 12:06 pm

Alan, looking at your original question, you may need to expand to look at blues instruction (or whatever kind of music you want to play) in standard E9 or C6 from whoever plays it the way you want to learn. Once you become familiar with a uni, you don't really need uni instruction, but can use any E9 or C6 instruction.

For blues it would be well to remember that the pedals and levers of E9 were designed for country, and those of C6 for Western swing. Blues actually works out better in either mode if you mostly ignore the pedals and levers and just play the open tuning. Once you can do that pretty well in either mode, you can see how to blend them. E9 works better for simple traditional Delta or Chicago blues, and B6 is useful for something with jazz chords like Stormy Monday. Once you get experienced in the open string modes, you can begin to figure out how pedals can keep you from jumping aroung the neck as much, and be used for some single string solo stuff. But frankly, pedals and levers can sometimes make things too complicated and slow you down. Also, they can inadvertently add unwanted "country" flavor, because the pedal changes are so integral to the country sound.

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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 13 Jul 2006 3:43 pm

Well put, David.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 13 Jul 2006 4:09 pm

Joe's P6, P7, P8, P9 and LKV map to the standard C6th pedals P5, P6, P7, P8 and RK. He has all of the standard E9th pedals too - A B C D E F are P2, P3, P4, RKL, RKR, LKL.

There is no real standard for which knee change goes where on any pedal steel copedent. Joe's choices are as reasonable as any, and his string tuning is as standard U-12 as they come.

Bill said "... the actual tuning, not just the pedal or lever combinations, were different ... I bought his chord book for universal and it was useless for me". I can't imagine how Bill's tuning could have been a U-12 E9/B6 and not line up with Joe's string-for-string.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog [This message was edited by b0b on 13 July 2006 at 05:13 PM.]

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 13 Jul 2006 4:16 pm

Well put, David. I would add that I believe one should only use the E9 neck for pure country music and use the B6th for everything esle.... blues, swing, jazz, rock, Hawaiian, pop, funk, fusion, grunge, Brazilian, you name it. Otherwise it'll sound "country" and you may not want that.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 13 Jul 2006 8:45 pm

To Illustrate Don's point, here's an example of what might happen if you try to play Hawaiian music on E9th. Or rock. Or even jazz.

You can hear how the E9th makes everything sound country from those examples.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 13 Jul 2006 10:17 pm

Don, I wouldn't say only use E9 for country. Elmore James style slide licks lay out better for me on E9. Also, rock and blues power chords work out really well on the bottom strings of a uni in E9 mode, in both major and minor keys. Minor blues work really well on a uni in E9 mode, because with the A pedal down, the 12th, 9th and 5th strings are the minor root, and the other strings all across the neck have minor and pentatonic scale notes. This also means that this mode is great for jazz derived from minor blues (which for me is most cool jazz and avant garde jazz). The trick is to not use the pedals for glisses, and don't do the rocking A and B pedal country stuff. But just using them for chord changes works fine.

Also, the B6 mode has its own problems. That 6th that is so prominent in 30s jazz and Western swing, has almost no place in staight blues and modern jazz. It gives a very dated sound. You really have to work to avoid it. Of course, on a uni, if you hit the B pedal, the 6th becomes the flat 7th, which is very useful in blues and blues-based jazz.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 14 Jul 2006 12:50 am

I'm finding now, after 8-10 years with the "U"
tuning, that I can slide in and out of both modes fairly easy, and that I hardly ever use the E-Eb knee lever locker anymore.

I play an older Williams U-12, 8x6.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 14 Jul 2006 12:57 am

Actually, b0b,

Your E9th "JAZZ" sampler sounded pretty convincing to me. I know some low end voicings were missing, but what the hey?

Not too chabby, in a pinch (between the gums).

Bruce Blackburn · Post by **Bruce Blackburn** » 14 Jul 2006 7:40 am

Try Bill Staffords course it is 14 STRING But it is a great course. It will help you.

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Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 14 Jul 2006 8:26 am

Having used a B6 tuning since the late 1940s when I realized that playing "Steelin' the Blues" in C# was not acceptable to backup musicians, I have modified my charts to accept those changes.

On the few charts that I have bought, I have had to translate the C6 charts to a B6.

I don't know from nothing about a "universal course", but I recommend focusing on your hearing of those concepts.[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 14 July 2006 at 09:27 AM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 14 Jul 2006 12:11 pm

To me all 3 of b0b's examples were nicely done.

And they all sounded pretty "countrified" to me. I think they inadvertantly prove the point about the E9 tuning, at least to this pair of non-country ears. They might not sound country to a REAL country player - but to a NON country player, they might (and do here) sound country.

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 14 Jul 2006 10:11 pm

I'm not saying you can't play any rock or swing or whatever on E9 I'm just saying why bother? If you have access to a 6th neck, especialy if it has a full set of Emmons' knee lever changes, why bothe trying to do it on your E neck? And vise versa.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 15 Jul 2006 7:31 am

The E9/B6 U-12 copedent was developed to solve that dilemma. Which neck should I use for this tune? Once you decide, it seems to be etched in stone.

For example, I played single neck E9th exclusively for 20 years. I learned San Antonio Rose on it really well and played it hundreds, if not thousands of times. Then I bought a D-10. I became pretty comfortable on the back neck. I can jam on it.

So I'm on the bandstand and the leader calls out "San Antonio Rose". I figure, this is western swing, it belongs on the back neck. Take it away Bobby! Result: disaster, comparitively speaking. I would have to actually relearn the song note for note, position for position to pull it off. I have better things to do with my time than learn how to play a song I already know really well, again!

The U-12 is great because it pulls the E9th and C6th concepts together in one neck.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog