Thoughts on Universal

[Pete Burak]

Sounds good Georg.
Do you have any thoughts on the original post in this thread about Maurice Andersons Bb6th?

[Ian Rae]

What Paul Franklin demonstrates is that if you're a good enough player you can play just about anything on either neck.

But speaking as a mere mortal with not enough time left to become any better than adequate, I need both necks but I'm past hauling a D10. So the "standard" B6/E9 uni is a gift to me. It's two tunings I can lift in and out of the car, pure and simple. I don't think of it as a philosophy but as a practicality.

You can't take all the changes with you from a loaded D10, but you end up with a few new ones so it balances out.

[Sonny Jenkins]

Pete's arrangement of strings makes a lot of sense to me,,,maybe the group 1 spread would be a little akward at first

[Pete Burak]

Pete's arrangement of strings makes a lot of sense to me,,,maybe the group 1 spread would be a little akward at first

Sonny, Keep in mind that if you have been playing Uni for a long time, you already know how to navigate and play that string order, because strings 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 are already in that order.
6-G#
7-F#
8-E
9-B
10-G#

All I did was put strings 2-6 in the same order (string-1 becomes D#).

This basic Steel lick in the Key of E with the A and B pedals is now the same in both string groups.

[tab]
6-G#----7^7B----------------------
7-F#------------7-----------------
8-E----------7-------7------------
9-B---------------7A---7A^7-------
10-G#------------------------7B---
[/tab]

[tab]
2-G#----7^7B----------------------
3-F#------------7-----------------
4-E----------7-------7------------
5-B---------------7A---7A^7-------
6-G#-------------------------7B---
[/tab]

Look, here is the same lick the way we all first learned it from the top of page 49 in the Winnie Winston book.
In standard E9th S10 string order:

[Sonny Jenkins]

Yes Pete,,,makes more sense for B6 also

[Pete Burak]

Yes Pete,,,makes more sense for B6 also

Sonny, If you have spare strings on hand, a guy like you could make the change in about a half hour or so.
Change the order of the top three strings, pull the rods for the G#, and D# strings (and F# if you have a change there), slide the bell cranks to the new string positions, and replace the rods in the new string/bellcrank positions.
As always, take pictures and make notes of what position the rods and bellcranks are in, before making any changes.

B6 works great, and your E9th licks are all still there, you just need to get a feel for the new string order.

[Sonny Jenkins]

LOL,,you forget,,I play a Kline. Well really not that much more trouble. I'm rebuilding an old all pull uni,,,it will be a lot easier to experiment with. Actually I don't think this is that much different than Reece's interval sequence

[Pete Burak]

I did forget that you play a Kline!
It is a bigger job!
I did it to my Kline and had to fabricate a new rod for string-2 so it would reach the string-1 position, from the Yoke.
Oy!

[David Wright]

putting a Lock on Bb is not going to work, by holding the knee lever in puts you in the E flat 9 mod, releasing it works the same as lowing E's so locking it you screw yourself..it would be hard to flow from a country sound in to a fat full cord sound.. Maurice came up with this way back in early 70's.. When I started on Bb in 1970, we lowered to get the A&B pedal sound..when Maurice came up with holding the lever in, we had A&B just like the e 9 players had, through the years I added the C pedal, and raising the e's .and Pf pedal, along with some other E 9 changes..for "me", it's the best universal tuning out there...
Here's a videos kind of showing you how it all works..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzFy44f2qzI

[David Wright]

[David Wright]

Here is the Master of bb.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4_jnMDvIDE

[Slim Heilpern]

I started on Jeff's E9/B6 Universal.

I later changed the order of the first three strings to:
1-D#
2-G#
3-F#

...

Howdy Pete!

I've been considering this change for a while now, finally took the plunge today after a few years of struggling with quickly moving to and from the grip required to play strings 6,5,4,1 which I use a lot (I use 3 finger picks) and that's no longer an issue (at 6,5,4,3). The only downside I've run into so far is that another grip I use sometimes is now more difficult, which is the major 7th chord with no pedals which before this change was strings 8,6,5,2 and is now 8,6,5,1 -- but I don't use that very often, so I think I'll stick with the new tuning.

Adapting typical E9 licks on the upper strings seems very straight forward and it doesn't look like it will require too much brain rewiring. (Time will tell!)

Also the rodding changes were pretty easy and straight forward on my Williams.

Thanks to you and others who've suggested making this change, it does make sense.

- Slim

[Jim Hollingsworth]

10 years ago I had Gary Rittenberry build me an S10 guitar as a C6 Universal. It was basically Paul Franklins prefabricate tuning with a few changes to fit my needs. It was essentially a fully loaded C6 with A and B pedals pitched for the C tuning. And two of the knees set up for the “E changes”. U fortunately I had to sell it. But I am saving my $$ to have Gary n Derek build me another because I sorely miss it. It retained my C6 orientation but I could also do the majority of E9 licks too. The only difference was the “beefiness” vs the snap/twang of the notes. I tried it as D6 and it sounded just like an E9! Only problem was I missed the fullness ... so I went back to C6 pitch Center. It was a really fun guitar. I WILL get another one!

Jim

[Bas Kapitein]

Jim, look at at everything B0b has published on the D6th subject. I recently changed a S-12 4/5 to fit his tuning with the two extra strings to get an extra chromatic and an extra low end string.It is more universal in my opinion because you do not need to "hold in" a kneelever. Playing "nine' is limited a little bit (not all the strings are there) but some new unison sounds are easy to be found.
Playing "six" is limited to two pedals but the rest is on the knees.
But limited is relatively because I always remember Maurice playing his fully loaded U-12 in my livingroom and hardly touching a pedal (he was my guest in the seventies)

[Sonny Jenkins]

At this point I'm liking Pete's string sequence for E9/B6,,except I'd like to try approaching from the other side,,,instead of holding a kl in for B6, I'd like to tune to B6 and kl into E9??

[Eugene Cole]

I spent quite a bit of time looking over Sneaky Pete’s B6 copedant a long time ago and I still think of it as being in the spirit of Universal tunings.



It is very much a hybrid of C6 and E9 tunings; yet was neither exactly.

His copedant is an interesting study.

[Sonny Jenkins]

Yeah,,,looks like you may have an extra string in there from Pete's,,,his B (root) is still on 5,,,you have it on 6?

[Fred]

Yeah,,,looks like you may have an extra string in there from Pete's,,,his B (root) is still on 5,,,you have it on 6?

No, that’s Sneaky Pete’s copedent.

[Sonny Jenkins]

Oh,,I was referring to Pete Burak's copedent,,,you were talking about Sneaky Pete,,,sorry.