Bad press on Carter steels

Johnie King · Post by **Johnie King** » 11 Oct 2020 11:14 am

This nice Carter an has been traded too a forum member. ::: I know she plays good an sounds very good. :::: I here Buddy Emmons cut a Christmas album with Gene Watson on a Carter an said there wasnâ€™t a dimes difference in the tone of a push pull an a Carter.

Please give Reasons why you should not buy a Pro Carter steel.
I myself think there one of the finest steels ever made
I have a d10 that I love.

Johnie King · Post by **Johnie King** » 11 Oct 2020 11:19 am

Itâ€™s all cool just a dog bone to replace after many years an a torx screw. There very good steels.
It just give my customer concern he got a Pm from a forum member
That was just trying too inform him what too do an where too get parts if he had a problem down the road.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 11 Oct 2020 12:32 pm

I think Carter Pro model pedal steels are excellent steels, and frequently a relative bargain in the PSG world. I owned a U12 and have played others. They all sounded good and played well.

The only negative thing I've ever heard about is the dogbone inserts on the pull-rods that sometimes break. Sure 'nuff, a couple of mine broke when I was changing the setup around. I got new ones, end of story. And I understand that someone is making somewhat stronger ones now. I hardly think this issue is enough reason to unilaterally avoid a pro model Carter. I think pretty much every pedal steel has some type of long-term routine maintenance issue that needs to be addressed occasionally.

Barry Coker · Post by **Barry Coker** » 11 Oct 2020 12:56 pm

I think the Carter Pro model guitars are a great value and are very much under priced. For some reason people who have never owned or played a Carter want to put the Pro Models in the same class as the "Carter Starter" which is so far from reality it is pathetic.
The Carter Pro guitars are great playing, sounding and Looking and there changers and mechanics are as Smooth as any I have ever played.

IMHO Barry

Larry Phleger · Post by **Larry Phleger** » 11 Oct 2020 1:04 pm

I agree with Barry. I had a Carter U12 for over 20 years. It never gave me a bit of trouble. It played great and stayed in tune better than any steel I ever owned. Wish I still had it.

John Swain · Post by **John Swain** » 11 Oct 2020 4:06 pm

I had 4 Carters, one I played from 2002(brand new) until 2015. I never had any problem with them. Take note, Bobby Black and Rusty Young still play theirs!

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 11 Oct 2020 5:24 pm

Not only do I agree that a Carter is a fine horn, the Magnum is also quite a piece of work. Mostly the same thing w/less cosmetic sparkle. I've worked on a very few Carters and noticed that not only is there no hysterisis, the degree of cabinet detune is better than most. Bud told me that he designed the changer to overcome sharp return from a lower, and the low profile top accounted for the cab drop non-issue. I remember E having a particularly nice black mica Carter w/E-66's. Sounded alot like the Blade we thought.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Oct 2020 7:17 pm

Buddy Emmons wrote:I have two Legrande lll models, one of which I used on Gene Watson's last album. Just for the record, I used a Carter D-10 on Gene's Gospel album and for all practical purposes, I can't tell a dime's worth of difference, but what do I know?(2/17/02)

K Maul · Post by **K Maul** » 11 Oct 2020 9:26 pm

I had a Carter D-10. I thought it had a bell-like Emmons-ish quality. Of all the steels Iâ€™ve let go I regret that one the most by far.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Oct 2020 11:49 pm

Played and owned Carters for near 15 years, 3 or 4 different D10's. I kept upgrading to a more configured Steel.

The main concerns are the very small Dogbones used on the pullers, which by the way are very functional, and the HEX screws used. Neither have anything to do with how they play or sound. If you never turned the Steel over to make a copendant change you would not even know what we are referring to .

The concern (not problem) with the Brass Dogbones is not that they do not function, they do, its that they are very small and hard to work with ,and if you drop one, you spend more time looking for it on the floor than the actual time it takes to make any adjustment change .

The HEX screw heads will strip. If we are doing any sort of changes which require removing the Hex Screws, run down to Lowes (or the local hardware store) and grab a package of quality Phillips Head Screws ( same size) and replace the Hex Screws. You can get a package of new screws for well under $10. OR maybe a pack of SS Hex Screws, either will fit the bill.

Another minor concern is the Knee Levers use ROLL PINS to secure them to the lever mount, at times can be floppy. I never found this to be an issue, others have commented about this.

I sold my last Carter D10 about 5 years ago, a 9 and 8, I recently called the buyer with the thought of buying it back as he is not using it, its still in the case. But then Covid hit and I clearly do not need 3/D10's . I barely need 1

Years back I recorded a track with the Carter, many chimed in saying my "EMMONS" sounded great. Well, my Emmons was a CARTER.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 12 Oct 2020 3:23 am

I bought seven new Carters & one Magnum. Had 10-1's instead of the factory p/u's installed on each one.

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 12 Oct 2020 5:24 am

Tommy White recorded his instrumental album on a Carter, he is pictured behind it on the cover.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 12 Oct 2020 5:40 am

I've owned a couple, and I liked both of mine a lot. They were good sounding guitars (I had Truetones on mine FWIW), also fairly lightweight and easy to work on. If someone told me I couldn't play a P/P, I'd probably start looking for a Carter, I liked mine that much.

I've got a buddy looking for his first guitar, and I'm watching for the right Carter to show up. They are well under-valued IMO.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 12 Oct 2020 6:20 am

One review does not constitute bad press IMO and hardly worth complaing about. Indeed, it sounds like the person was just offering some insight as to which parts might be problematic and where to find replacements if and when needed. Every guitar has it's mechanical characteristics.

I know the Carter I'm playing has had a couple linkage rod connectors break for no apparent reason. Same part as the bell crank on this one.

I have had no dog bones break, but they are a pita re-aligning in the crank slot when doing changes...also tiny and easy to lose.

I've seen a few reports about the primary reversing lever 90Â° leg breaking and particularly the vertical lever can wear so that the roll pin tension won't keep it in position.

Most of these things can be repaired or replaced.

Having owned and played several brands of guitars over 40 + years I have to say Carters are what they are. They sound just fine to me, but they are not as mechanically sturdy as say Franklin, Mullen or Zum. That's just a fact. The wear factor is higher and the overall guitar is smaller and more compact. Same for some of the mechanicals.

I don't think they're underpriced at all. Used prices reflect a fair and reasonable value on a par to what they sold for new and they just do not command the same prices as the brands referred to above as well as some other modern pedal steels nor should they. JMO.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 12 Oct 2020 5:00 pm

Carters are Greeeaaaaat guitar, i remember a decade or so ago when many were all racing to buy one, then there was the trade in for the BCT... anything Bud built was phenominal.

Colin Swinney · Post by **Colin Swinney** » 12 Oct 2020 5:06 pm

Can someone please post a photo of these dog bones? Iâ€™m having a hard time picturing this.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 12 Oct 2020 5:23 pm

Actually, bar bells might be a better name. They look like tiny weights that you might use for arm curls etc.

They are on the left with Bill's replacements on the right in this photo I transferred from Bill Liscomb's post concerning these.

Colin Swinney · Post by **Colin Swinney** » 12 Oct 2020 5:41 pm

Thank you Jerry, I get it now. â€œDog bonesâ€ is perfect, makes them seem fun even though they sound like a pain in the butt.

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 12 Oct 2020 5:58 pm

The dog bone issue may not be a problem for a lot of players. Even though they're a consumable part, they will probably outlive a lot of owners.

I rode my Carter hard in the trenches for 13 or 14 years before the B-pedal's bones looked like the worn one in Jerry's picture above. I spent a few bucks and replaced them in no time.

At that time, the A-pedal bones had another 5 years on them. And all the other pedals and knees had another 8 or 10 years.

If you don't play the guitar for several hours every day and you're middle aged, you may never have to replace anything, ever. Otherwise, you might eventually have to replace a few bones of your 'most used' pedals, but probably not all of them on the steel.

I consider the issue a minor hiccup that doesn't change the fact that you can't get a better guitar for less money. If you're looking for 'bang for the buck,' this is the absolute winner. Perfect for the perpetually broke working musician operating on a shoe string. Said another way, you can spend a lot more money and only end up with a marginally better steel. Your budget will guide you.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 13 Oct 2020 1:34 am

Continuing on, I never had a single problem with any of the Carters I owned and played for near 15 years, non stop. Not a single part broke or wore out. Yes I mentioned the DOGBONES and the HEX screws but those are not problems.

Wanna hear a problem ? here ya go, I was on a session with my early 80's Sho Bud S10, The E Lower knee lever bracket (pot metal) broke off and fell to the floor in front of the client. She asked , is that a problem ? I responded nahhh... While dieing inside !

I had to continue the session without the E Lower Knee lever. I had to become very creative needless to say, I had to leave half of my tricks in my pocket !

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 13 Oct 2020 6:36 am

Wasn't there a problem at one time with the tone on the Carters?
I believe it had to do with the material used to build the cabinet.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 13 Oct 2020 7:30 am

Erv Niehaus wrote:Wasn't there a problem at one time with the tone on the Carters?
I believe it had to do with the material used to build the cabinet.

Never heard of that, the bodies were always rock maple.

Mitch Adelman · Post by **Mitch Adelman** » 13 Oct 2020 10:25 am

Once I had a dogbone break during a show and A pedal hit the floor. No fun but I had a spare and fixed it at breaktime. I read about them sometimes failing on this forum so luckily I bought some spares. Ever since, I put a drop of Triflo on each bone rod juncture when I change strings to lube it and never had another issue. I love my Carter and has been a great sounding reliable workhouse for over 25 years!

Bob Sykes · Post by **Bob Sykes** » 13 Oct 2020 1:25 pm

Erv, The tone problem you heard about may be the "pre-BCT" models. There was a (mid-production) change to improve tone/sustain by altering the changer somehow increasing Body Contact. I think also a BCT kit was/is still available? The tone problem with my Carters is strictly due to HCT (me).

The only mechanical issue(s) I have had was a pull rod breaking in the middle of the hook. Some PITA Torx screws, but no broken bones.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 13 Oct 2020 11:32 pm

it was not a tone PROBLEM, my first Carter was PRE BCT, the others were POST BCT. To be honest I don't recall ever telling the difference. BCT was a slight design change, an upgrade so to speak.

According to John Fabian ( RIP)
quote:
The fingers are in contact with the body UNTIL you raise a string(s). Then that raise finger(s) pulls away from the body.

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Bad press on Carter steels

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