Problems Recording with BandLab

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 25 Apr 2020 4:24 pm

I'm using Windows 10 with BandLab. I have a Sure SM 58 with a Polsen XLR interface plug and play. I cannot get good recording volume without cranking the Windows settings all the way up, but then I get a lot of hum and hiss. The sound comes through the headphones okay. Any suggestions? I'm putting this in the Electronics forum too.

Jim Fogle · Post by **Jim Fogle** » 25 Apr 2020 5:20 pm

Fred,

Where are you cranking the volume up, on the Polsen or the track input gain?

Without knowing my guess is the Polsen doesn't have enough clean gain to create a strong analog signal into the computer when used with a dynamic microphone like the Shure SM-57. The SM-57 is not known as a very sensitive microphone. That is one factor in its popularity as a great microphone for live use; it doesn't pick up background noise and singers can scream into it without over driving the microphone. Conversely a dynamic microphone like the SM-57 doesn't put out as strong a signal as a condenser microphone so you need a preamplifier with high gain to amplify it's signal.

I would play with the volume level of the Polsen and the track input gain. Set the volume level of the Polsen as high as you can without distorting and then adjust the recording track level as high as you need to get a track meter signal that averages between -6db to -12db.

In analog recording the goal is to keep the signal level as close to 0, or even overdrive the signal just a little. Digital recording is different. In digital recording if your signal level reaches 0 you've gone too far. Most folks suggest maximum recording track levels of -6db to -12db. That will give you a good, clean signal without losing any digital data. That also leaves room for adding effects, mixing and mastering.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 25 Apr 2020 5:31 pm

Thanks Jim after what you said, I think I need to try a more sensitive mic. I've already been monkeying around with every level there is without success. Weird because I've used the SM58 with my old Fostex digital 4 track without much issue.

Jim Fogle · Post by **Jim Fogle** » 25 Apr 2020 5:47 pm

Fred,

I have a SM-57 and it works good with some things and others, not so good.

What are you recording, voice or instrument? If you're recording an electric instrument like steel, guitar or bass a 1/4 inch to USB cable might be a handy solution. https://www.amazon.com/TNP-Guitar-Conne ... 515&sr=8-9

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 26 Apr 2020 10:34 am

I'm trying to lay down some steel tracks and some lead guitar. My son emailed me some tracks he recorded on BandLab. The 1/4" USB on the Amazon link is out of stock, but I get what you're saying. One of the problems I have seen with recording direct is that if reverb or delay is added after the fact, the quality is sketchy. If you want to play off of the sustain on guitar parts you need to hear it in real time as your recording it.

Jim Fogle · Post by **Jim Fogle** » 26 Apr 2020 2:09 pm

I agree recording direct versus through an amplifier can come out sounding WAY different. It definitely isn't to everybody's cup of tea.

I made the 1/4" to USB suggestion because I didn't know exactly what you're wanting to record and didn't know if you had to use a microphone. I try to always make suggestions that are not cost prohibitive because you never know what someone finds affordable.

Here is a link to one for $10 US that shows as "in stock" at this time. https://www.amazon.com/Andoer-Connectio ... 993&sr=8-9

Another thought is to try a different microphone. I have one of these $39 US Samson USB Go microphones and have been very pleased with it. It is an electret condenser microphone so it is sensitive and puts out a strong 16 bit 44.1K/48K hertz digital signal. The black part can be used as a desktop stand or it can clip onto your microphone stand. It has a 3.5 mm stereo headphone jack so it acts as an audio interface so you can hear what you play and the computer audio blended together. It uses Windows USB drivers so no additional software is needed (but equalization software is available). Best of all it feels solid and is made in the USA. The con is the cable is short, about 6 feet. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samson-go- ... Id=5893103

A no name desktop microphone kit is available from Walmart for less than $22.00. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mgaxyff-USB- ... /754940063.

Of course another solution is a USB mixer. Get the right one and your steel, guitar and amplifier are always connected and ready to go without swapping cables. Here are some of the ones Sweetwater carries: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search ... b=low2high

Of course you may want to look at a different audio interface. Everybody has strong feelings about their favorite so I try to stay away from that discussion.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 27 Apr 2020 2:19 am

If you are only using the PC sound card (e.g. Realtek) that is known for a lot of latency (delay). Thus what you record will not be in sync with the pre-recorded tracks.

Best option is a low latency or relatively low latency USB recording interface unit. With that you can record direct or mic the steel. Do your homework as the one or two channel preamp models vary widely on latency. I use MOTU but they are not the most inexpensive models. Focusrite is a popular brand and I've tried them and suffice to say I don't own one.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 27 Apr 2020 8:56 am

I just ordered a Behringer condenser mic with USB interface that has some controls on it. It should arrive tomorrow. I'm looking forward to seeing how that works. I'll keep you posted!

Jim Fogle · Post by **Jim Fogle** » 27 Apr 2020 10:23 am

Fred,

Looking forward to reading your update. Which Behringer microphone/interface did you order? I hope you will be pleased with your selection.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 29 Apr 2020 9:46 am

Jim, I got a Behringer C-1 mic with a Tube ultragain mic500 pre amp USB interface. I layed down a couple of tracks with it and it is very nice. Crisp and clean!

Jim Fogle · Post by **Jim Fogle** » 30 Apr 2020 5:46 pm

Fred,

I've read some good comments about the Behringer C-1 large capsule condenser microphone. I'm not familar with the Tube ultragain mic500 pre amp USB interface but it looks interesting.

I'm glad you're liking the sounds you're getting. I hope you'll post a link to something online so we all can hear what it sounds like.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 30 Apr 2020 11:15 pm

Jim, do you think Cakewalk is an upgrade over Bandlab? I've been a little frustrated with Bandlab.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 30 Apr 2020 11:33 pm

You're right Jack, a higher quality pre amp and interface was the answer. The new Behringer mic is the icing on the cake.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 1 May 2020 2:11 am

I don't know what the other Bandlab offerings are, but Cakewalk is a full feature recording program, on a par with ProTools, Studio One, etc.

I have the old (not supported) Sonar that I've used for the last 10 years or so, the renamed Cakewalk by Bandlab (Sonar) and Studio One 4.6 Professional but I continue to use Cakewalk.

Cakewalk is being continually updated, they just issued 2020.04 version about a week ago.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 1 May 2020 9:39 am

I just finished a song on Bandlab, and it was frustrating. The editing process is not user friendly and it got to the point where after making and edit, other tracks went out of sync. I downloaded the free Presonus Studio One 4 last night so we'll see.

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 1 May 2020 10:03 am

Just to clarify for myself to follow along with this thread,
- Presonus offers a free one-month trial version of Studio One. It is a stand-alone Pro-quality DAW, not connected with BandLab
- Cakewalk By BandLab (the former â€œSonarâ€) is a free program, period. Stand alone pro-quality DAW.
- BandLab has its own site-based DAW app. Looks like an app, quacks like an app.

Do I have that right, as far as anyone knows?

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 1 May 2020 10:14 am

If you are recording tracks with tracks already recorded and the new track(s) are not in sync, its not the recording program's fault, its the latency (delay) of the interface device you are using. You can use any recording program and you will have the same issue.

You have latency (delay) hearing the already recorded tracks and then there is latency (delay) from the time you actually play along until its recorded. If this is the case the only remedy is to get a recording interface unit that has low latency.

For example, I used to have a Focusrite Saffire 40 interface unit and the lowest useable buffer size resulted in 10 plus milliseconds of delay. I moved to a Roland Octa-Capture and useable was 6 milliseconds. I finally moved to MOTU and my recording latency is 2.8 milliseconds.

Here is what Cakewalk reports for my MOTU Latency (Studio One 4.6 reports the identical).

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 1 May 2020 10:15 pm

With Bandlab, I conduct a latency test prior to recording, and the track is recorded in sync and sounds just fine. Then after I do some further editing on completely different tracks and save them, I play the recording back and tracks that were once synced up nicely are now out of sync. If I try to use the Automation tool to change volume or remove noise, the track will go out of sync too.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 2 May 2020 2:11 am

I would need more detailed info on what you are doing, I've never encountered that, and I've done a lot of recording. Whole bands, tracks at a time, Karaoke singers, etc. I've even done some mastering for other studios.

I use automation for volume level and it never changed timing so detail how you are doing that.

There is no need to do a latency test every time you record. Whatever the latency is, that is going to be the same every time.

Here is a sample of a song that was "pieced" together, not done all at one time, with automation.

Jim Fogle · Post by **Jim Fogle** » 2 May 2020 4:57 pm

Fred Treece,

BandLab can refer to many things however I believe that as Fred Glave is using the word that he is indeed referring to the digital audio workstation or DAW app available online or on mobile. You can find out more here: https://www.bandlab.com/download

Cakewalk by BandLab, or CbB for short, is a full featured DAW that runs on 64 bit Windows 7 or higher operating systems. It is based on Sonar Platinum code with two years of fixes and improvements. There is only one edition and it is available for free. You can find out more here: https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk.

PreSonus Studio One has three editions; Prime, Artist and Professional. The flagship edition, Professional, is available for free as a 30 day trial. Prime is free forever but will not work with VSTs unless you purchase a $99 add-on. You can compare the Studio One editions here: https://www.presonus.com/products/Studi ... e-versions

Here is a Wikipedia page that does a pretty good job of listing many DAWs and comparing their feature set: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... io_editors