Alumitone pickup - how does it work?
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
Alumitone pickup - how does it work?
I have these in both my guitars (Williams and Excel) and they sound fantastic. But I expect a pickup to have pole pieces and a big fat coil, and these seem to contain practically nothing.
Would some kind soul enlighten me? I have a reasonable technical education but I'm puzzled
Would some kind soul enlighten me? I have a reasonable technical education but I'm puzzled
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs
- Douglas Schuch
- Posts: 1390
- Joined: 10 Jun 2011 9:33 am
- Location: Valencia, Philippines
I don't know the answer, Ian, but here's some info that might help a smarter person understand them. From Lace's current site:
And, last, an answer from Yahoo Questions:
So this gives me a basic understanding. I'm no electro-geek - so others may grasp it better, but basically, the aluminum shell of the pickup is the main component that strings "excite", which is bonded to a thin copper winding, which acts as a transformer with the shell. And since this method apparently has some internal efficiencies over the standard methods, they can be lower resistance, which allows for far less degradation of the signal (about 5000 on my ohm meter). Does that sound about right in layman's terms?
The steel guitar models are humbuckers - you can look at Lace's website and see very narrow single-coil versions of the Alumitone.
And here is some info from the wayback machine, from an earlier version of the Lace website:the Alumitone utilizes a technology completely different from any other pickup on the market. The Alumitone functions as a closed loop primary transformer, yielding a broadband, HDTv for your ears response.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110713180 ... _specs.phpThis radical departure from pickup design is aluminum based, rather than copper. Result: less resistance, higher output coupled to a "current driven design" as opposed to conventional voltage based pickups.
The aluminum water jet cut exoskeleton is then matted to a micro winding using 90% less fine copper wire, a low impedance/high impedance pickup is then created.
And, last, an answer from Yahoo Questions:
[Removed an invalid link.]From what I can tell (looking at the Lacemusic.com site), it is a current transformer that is not 100% coupled as a normal current transformer would be. Current transformers are typically 1 turn of heavy gauge wire (that you want to sense the current passing through) coupled to 1000 turns of small-gauge wire. Perhaps you have seen an "Amp Clamp" on a multi-meter. That's the same principle.
A very large magnet (2 of them) compared with the small cylinder magnets of standard pickups, induces larger eddy currents in the strings, which induces a larger current in the loop of aluminum. That's one turn which is picked up by the multi-turn smaller coil underneath. 1 turn of aluminum is almost a dead short, so the voltage induced on the 1 turn is extremely low. If there are 1000 turns on the secondary coil, the voltage is multipled by a factor of 1000, while the current is divided by a factor of 1000. There are losses involved to the numbers aren't that exact. And for this setup it looks like the coupling is not anywhere near 100%.
Since they can wind fewer turns on the secondary than a standard pickup, the impedance is lower which is advantageous in many other ways (possible better frequency response, more voltage to the amp input).
So this gives me a basic understanding. I'm no electro-geek - so others may grasp it better, but basically, the aluminum shell of the pickup is the main component that strings "excite", which is bonded to a thin copper winding, which acts as a transformer with the shell. And since this method apparently has some internal efficiencies over the standard methods, they can be lower resistance, which allows for far less degradation of the signal (about 5000 on my ohm meter). Does that sound about right in layman's terms?
The steel guitar models are humbuckers - you can look at Lace's website and see very narrow single-coil versions of the Alumitone.
Pedal steel, lap steel, resonator, blues harp - why suck at just one instrument when you can do so on many?
- Bobby Nelson
- Posts: 803
- Joined: 21 Apr 2017 6:46 pm
- Location: North Carolina, USA
It's all voodoo to me (coils, no coils, mid coil taps, wires, x-rays from space etc). But it is my pup of choice in my Legend - nothing sounds better, although the XP-10 Telonics comes close, and to be fair, I haven't noodled with the adjustable pole pieces on that one - the
Alumitone just sounds too good already.
Alumitone just sounds too good already.
- Douglas Schuch
- Posts: 1390
- Joined: 10 Jun 2011 9:33 am
- Location: Valencia, Philippines
Bobby - I agree - I ordered a Telonics XP as I wanted the adjustments to get the strings all sounding equally volume-wise - I got it this week and quickly gave it a try, but I just prefer the tone of the Alumitone. I've not made a definite decision yet, but suspect I will stick with them.
Pedal steel, lap steel, resonator, blues harp - why suck at just one instrument when you can do so on many?
- Lee Baucum
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- Darvin Willhoite
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Roxton, Tx. USA
I have a set of interchangeables for my newer MSA's and like them a lot. I use them almost exclusively on E9th and have for a long time.
Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, as well as some older MSAs, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Recently added a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored blue Rose, named the "Blue Bird" to the herd. Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic again that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also added a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks.
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, as well as some older MSAs, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Recently added a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored blue Rose, named the "Blue Bird" to the herd. Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic again that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also added a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks.
- Mike Perlowin
- Posts: 15171
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- Location: Los Angeles CA
- Contact:
I have one in one of my millenniums. I think it sounds great.
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
- Mike Perlowin
- Posts: 15171
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Los Angeles CA
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One of the best features of MSA steels is the modular pickup system, which allows you to instantly change pickups and compare their sounds.
I tried out a lot of different pickups including am E- 66, a Tru-tone, a Tone Aligner, a Telonics, even an active EMG. Granted. preference is subjective, but I feel the alumitone beats them all, hands down.
I believe it was John Fabian at Carter who first became aware of these pickups and introduced them to out community.
I tried out a lot of different pickups including am E- 66, a Tru-tone, a Tone Aligner, a Telonics, even an active EMG. Granted. preference is subjective, but I feel the alumitone beats them all, hands down.
I believe it was John Fabian at Carter who first became aware of these pickups and introduced them to out community.
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
Georg, as you suggest, I may well not get round to trying that method! But it's interesting to know.
Mike, that MSA feature is useful. I think there must be a lot of players out there who favour a pickup with "character" that gives a certain sound; but I like the idea of a device that has no character and just leaves me alone with the guitar.
Mike, that MSA feature is useful. I think there must be a lot of players out there who favour a pickup with "character" that gives a certain sound; but I like the idea of a device that has no character and just leaves me alone with the guitar.
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs
- Bobby Nelson
- Posts: 803
- Joined: 21 Apr 2017 6:46 pm
- Location: North Carolina, USA
Ian, I wouldn't say the Alumitone changes the character at all. what it does , to me, is just give me crystal clear highs, nice round mids, and clear and pronounced bottoms - it's just right all the way around. Others seem to loose clarity in certain ranges to me - usually in the the high ranges.I think there must be a lot of players out there who favour a pickup with "character" that gives a certain sound; but I like the idea of a device that has no character and just leaves me alone with the guitar
- Mike Perlowin
- Posts: 15171
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Los Angeles CA
- Contact:
Slightly off topic: I think every steel guitar builder should license the MSA modular pickup system and incorporate it into their guitars.
Some players would want to have a variety of different pickups and use them on different songs. Others, like me, would use the feature to compare the sounds of different pickups and choose the one they prefer. In my case, the alumitone.
Some players would want to have a variety of different pickups and use them on different songs. Others, like me, would use the feature to compare the sounds of different pickups and choose the one they prefer. In my case, the alumitone.
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
- Andy DePaule
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For use on lap steels?
Anybody have any idea how these would sound on a lap steel?
Would I be able to get that old time tone or would they be too bright?
Would I be able to get that old time tone or would they be too bright?
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.
Re: For use on lap steels?
I've used 6-string and wide 5-string bass models in several Fender 8-string pedal steels (the 6 string models work great because the magnets on top are not the critical "coverage area" items - even the small chrome extension for the coil picks up signal, and all of it is at the same volume level. They both sounded clear with more mids, more sustain and less top end "bite" than a typical Fender.Andy DePaule wrote:Anybody have any idea how these would sound on a lap steel?
Would I be able to get that old time tone or would they be too bright?
On a lap steel I suggest the "P-90" voiced model if they're still making it. It sounded like my Rick model 59 on a Fender 400.
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional
- Matthew Walton
- Posts: 399
- Joined: 30 May 2008 4:35 pm
- Location: Fort Worth, Texas
- Contact:
My dad's MSA SuperSlide has an Alumitone on it. I haven't done a side-by-side comparison with my SuperSlide with the normal pickup (if there is one), but when I play it I'm not put off by it. I know Reece put one on his, and I remember him saying it didn't make much of a difference soundwise.
That said, I think they look extremely cool!
That said, I think they look extremely cool!
If something I wrote can be interpreted two ways, and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, I meant the other one.
1981 MSA "The Universal" 9/5 | 2009 MSA S-12 SuperSlide | Peavey Nashville 112
1981 MSA "The Universal" 9/5 | 2009 MSA S-12 SuperSlide | Peavey Nashville 112
- Jerry Gleason
- Posts: 1098
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Re: For use on lap steels?
Andy, I have Alumitones in almost all the steels I have built, although two of those were stolen in a burglary of my shop last year. The two Double 8's I made have them, and so does my Carter Pedal steel. Give me a shout sometime if you want to check them out. They are a fantastic sounding pickup, and dead quiet. Very high output, also.Andy DePaule wrote:Anybody have any idea how these would sound on a lap steel?
Would I be able to get that old time tone or would they be too bright?
I would say that if it's a "old time" tone you're chasing, they might be a little too hi-fi sounding, although one of my D-8's is capable of sort of a Bigsby vibe with those pickups, helped out by the sliding mechanism I incorporated, and the coil tap switch (or transformer tap, or whatever it does in an Alumitone). You can check them out in some of my YouTube videos here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/steeljazz/videos
"Oscarism" and "Relaxin" feature that guitar, and "Lousiana Fairy Tale" is another D-8 with Alumitones, but with a little mellower tone.
I know this thread was started a few years ago, and probably many have moved on from to the Alumitone to whatever is the next new thing, like steel players tend to do, but for my money, they are still my preferred pickup.
- Ian Worley
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: 14 Jan 2012 12:02 pm
- Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: For use on lap steels?
excellent pickin' JerryJerry Gleason wrote:..."Oscarism" and "Relaxin" feature that guitar...
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon