What I Learned About UPS Shipping Today

[Dennis Montgomery]

Hi all,

I just shipped my recently sold Fender 400 today and learned a couple interesting things from the UPS store clerk that I thought I'd share for everyone who ships pedal/lap/console steels around.

1) Declared Value vs Insurance

Many people here throw these terms around as if they're the same thing, but they're definitely not. When I asked the UPS store clerk about putting insurance on my Fender 400 she laid out the story:

UPS does NOT offer 'insurance', they offer a paid 'declared value'. Insurance would obviously mean if a parcel was damaged you'd receive the value you were paying to insure...that's not what really happens. You are paying extra to define a 'declared value'. What that means is if the parcel is damaged, UPS will inspect the parcel, specifically how it was packed and then make a determination. If they decide damage was due to poor packing, then there is no payment to you even though you paid to set a 'declared value'. 'Poor packing' means there wasn't at least a 2 inch buffer of bubble wrap (or it's equivalent) between the guitar case and the cardboard in every area. Also, 'poor packing' means you didn't fill the inside of the case with bubble wrap or some material that insures the pieces aren't loose and can't move around.

I asked if 'Pink Panther' rigid foam insulation qualifies as a packing material equivalent to bubble wrap and she wasn't sure. I figured I could defend it if I had to and bought a declared value of $500 for $10.

A couple months ago I shipped a pedal steel and told the UPS store clerk I wanted to buy a declared value of $1400. She said any declared value over $900 HAS to be packed by the UPS store to the UPS guidelines! In the case of the 50+ pound package, that would have cost another $200 so I passed and bought a declared value of $900.

So remember, when you're paying extra to buy 'insurance' on your UPS shipment...it's NOT really insurance

2) Fragile Stickers are a Bad Idea

As hard as this may be to believe, this is what the UPS store clerk told me. A couple months back I had wrapped a pedal steel I was shipping in the box a synthesizer I recently bought came in. The box had several red stickers stamped, "FRAGILE" on it. She told me, "you're going to want to cover those 'Fragile' stickers". I asked why in the world would I do that? She told me (and I'm not making this up) that it's common knowledge in the shipping industry that there are some bad apples in the ranks of people who move packages from trucks to planes to warehouses to whatever that will go out of their way to "drop" or "kick" a package with Fragile stickers on it. I couldn't believe it, but she said she was absolutely serious and every time someone tries to ship a particularly heavy package that she discourages them from putting 'fragile' stickers on it. I went with her recommendation.

I can't say if these facts are the same for FedEx or other carriers, but this is what I learned from my local UPS Store.

Crazy world we ship in

[Cartwright Thompson]

I would never use UPS, too many bad experiences. FedEx Ground, while not perfect, is a much better way to go.

[Jim Fogarty]

A couple months ago I shipped a pedal steel and told the UPS store clerk I wanted to buy a declared value of $1400. She said any declared value over $900 HAS to be packed by the UPS store to the UPS guidelines! In the case of the 50+ pound package, that would have cost another $200 so I passed and bought a declared value of $900.

One small correction. You CAN pack an item yourself and have a declared value over $900, but a UPS employee (driver, usually) has to sign off on the packaging before they accept it. They have you print out a form for the driver to sign. So, you have to schedule a pickup at your own home or business for that to happen.

Note, crazy as it sounds, USP Store employees do NOT actually work for UPS, so they can't sign the form if you want to drop your package off there.

This is a recent policy.......and it's frankly idiotic.

[Jim Fogarty]

I would never use UPS, too many bad experiences. FedEx Ground, while not perfect, is a much better way to go.

Around here (Philadelphia), most of the Fed Ex Ground delivery people are private contractors, and total cowboys. It's common practice for them to simply toss large boxes up on your porch or stairs, then run off as quickly as possible.....no knock, no doorbell.......even if it's"signature required". I've seen guitar boxes thrown 10 or more feet unto concrete.

[Jerry Overstreet]

FedEx has the same policy regarding declared value. If you read their info, it states that clearly.

Re: determining declared value, I once took a pedal steel to FedEx and listed the value as $2500. The agent said he couldn't write it for that amount as anything over $500 value had to be inspected to be so determined.

I'd spent nearly all day packing it for secure shipment, and I told him wasn't about to unwrap it all. Finally, he acquiesced but told me to keep that policy in mind for the next time.

Still, they're my go to shipper for things that are too big or heavy for USPS mail. Never had any claims or damage with FedEx. I can't say the same about UPS.

[Ken Barrett]

Though it was long ago (late 90's & early 2000's) I had UPS damage 2 items I sold on Ebay> Though they were insured, they did not refund me for either because they were not packed well enough. Here's the thing. First one was a Lykes Tyke tricycle. You could throthat off a three story building onto concrete and it would not break. The second was a was a SKB ATA hard Golf club carrying case made to ship golf clubs & bags in. Didn't pack well enough? The sad thing is, in my experience, and I have shipped a lot of Items, UPS has been the most reliable.

[Steven Paris]

Does ANY carrier offer REAL insurance?

[Ron Dodd]

We need some new blood in the shipping arena some that cares

[Roger Rettig]

Both carriers clearly have similar operations and the human factor isn't peculiar to either one.

I always use FedEx. My reasoning? Here in Naples, anyway, their trade-counter staff seem far more amenable and customer-friendly and I leave the premises feeling fairly confident. I know it's a complete illusion but, in a game that's 'six of one or half-a-dozen of the other', it's as sound a policy as I can come up with.

I'm happy to report that recent shipments (a Gibson J-200 and my dear old G&L ASAT Classic) went without a hitch and arrived pretty mush as I'd shipped them.

[Jack Goodson]

i do not use the ups store to ship, i use the hub, i just walk in and give them my telephone number and let them know what is in the package and how much i want to cover it. even the ups people at the hub will tell you what a rip off the ups stores are....jack

[David Becker]

What is this "hub" of which you speak? I'm not familiar with it. Thanks.

[Erv Niehaus]

I sent out an Emmons through FedEx.
It was damaged.
FedEx denied any damage had been done.
I would up taking them to small claims court.
They denied the extra I paid was for insurance.
The judge said "I'll determine that".
She did, and decided I had paid for insurance and FedEx had to cough up the amount I was asking for.
Erv

[Dennis Montgomery]

One small correction. You CAN pack an item yourself and have a declared value over $900, but a UPS employee (driver, usually) has to sign off on the packaging before they accept it. They have you print out a form for the driver to sign. So, you have to schedule a pickup at your own home or business for that to happen.

Interesting. The store clerk never mentioned that...perhaps having the driver pick up directly cuts the store out of their slice of the shipping fee pie

Note, crazy as it sounds, USP Store employees do NOT actually work for UPS, so they can't sign the form if you want to drop your package off there.

This is a recent policy.......and it's frankly idiotic.

Agreed. I know for a fact our UPS Store is a franchise owned by an individual and not UPS. It's changed ownership since we've been going there and the new owner is a young guy who enforces all the store rules, where the previous owner had been there for many years and was lax on many store rules. Plus, there are many signs around the store like, "Ask me about becoming a UPS store franchise", etc.

Back in San Jose before we moved I became friends with a guy who owned a local Subway franchise and he told me how it works. I'm sure UPS Inc does the same or very similar thing: they take a cut of the store revenue (not net income) right off the top and direct the store branding (which the franchise owner is required to pay for), and do periodic site inspections to insure the franchise is following the rules and issue fines if they're not, but the store employees definitely don't work directly for the parent company, just the individual franchise owner

[Andrew Wright]

This has been the norm for years, but yes, most people don't understand how the system works.

The only real insurance you can buy is 3rd party insurance, usually sourced through Clarion or Heritage or similar. It's true insurance but it's not cheap, and the cost of making a claim is that your rates might go up in the future or they'll drop you as a customer.

No free lunch, at the end of the day. Shipping instruments is risky and somebody's going to eat the cost of anything negative that happens en route...

[Jerry Overstreet]

What is this "hub" of which you speak? I'm not familiar with it. Thanks.

I think he means an actual UPS industrial depot....as opposed to a UPS retail store you find in the strip malls and s/c.

I think it's unfortunate that a licensed UPS franchise can display a big UPS logo on their building which makes people think they are a part of the company, yet not be accountable to the customer in case of problems.

They are an agent for UPS and should be held accountable, thereby most any court will find in your favor due to that fact. The bad thing is that you have to spend your time and money to bring forth such an action and they know that.

[Jack Goodson]

the hub is where ups work out of....thanks jack

[David Becker]

Thanks for the clarification, guys. My education continues....

[Tony Prior]

Good clarifications above, it eliminates the wrong information which runs around, the UPS vs FED EX thing

One thing to add, if the UPS/FED X Store clerk signs the shipping form " over $1000 " the store becomes responsible for the insurance, while the UPS /FED X Driver is indeed an employee of the carrier which makes THEM responsible. It is a legal and binding document.

The Stores use the UPS name and logo's which attracts business, trucks come by a few times each day rather than once after 5 pm like the common shipping outlets. What I am told by two different UPS Store Owners is that they have a choice at contract, a % of the shipping charges or a flat rate per package.

I personally have never had an issue with the insurance form. The UPS store clerks hold the form for me to pick up after the driver signs it.

IF UPS or FED X employees / drivers are doing a what they are supposed to do, paying attention etc , then all should be well. One isn't better than another. BUT some people or workers are better than others. Its not the process, it's the people IN THE process.


Did you put tape on the box ?

Was I supposed to ?

Yeah, its step two...


McDonalds is an awful place to buy a Breakfast sandwich I'm never going to any McDonalds ever again. Its a terrible company. Last week I ordered a Breakfast sandwich with NO CHEESE. it came with CHEESE.

[Lee Holliday]

I have always put a lot of time and effort into how I package a guitar prior to shipping, that is the best insurance you can offer yourself, if it goes missing there's no way you can account for that but I have shipped worldwide and "touch wood" been ok so far. Some of the guitars I have received by comparison have had very little effort put in, often by high end dealers!!!
Lee

[Johnie King]

Best I can do is build shipping crates

Probably should let the ups or Fedex pack then damages are on them.

[Johnie King]

[T. C. Furlong]

At my company, we ship via UPS everyday. There are very few problems. We use a third party insurance company called Parcel Insurance Plan. PIP is owned by,,,are you ready for this...UPS.

[Michael Butler]

chose your poison, whether it be ups(pronounced oops), fedex or usps. i've had some horror stories and know others who have. try your darndest to not ship. that means you may have to use craigslist or facebook marketplace and deal with people directly which is another problem. nothing is easy anymore.

play music!

[Bob Bartoli]

In relation to Johnny's comment.. does any one let UPS pack and ship and insure there steel guitar, I have and had no problem ,although it's not cheap usually around $150- to $180.00.. it's my understanding if there is a problem it's on them ( UPS)??? anyone have experience with this situation ?

[Bob Bartoli]

In relation to Johnny's comment.. does any one let UPS pack and ship and insure there steel guitar, I have and had no problem ,although it's not cheap usually around $150- to $180.00.. it's my understanding if there is a problem it's on them ( UPS)??? anyone have experience with this situation ?