leg height

Jason Schofield · Post by **Jason Schofield** » 17 Feb 2006 1:39 am

Hey gang,
I was looking at an old pic of my stepdad playing my Franklin s-10 and I noticed there is a clearance of about 3-5 inches from the top of his legs to the bottom of the steel. My legs touch the bottom of the steel and hitting the RLR is really tough. I am also about 4-5 inches taller than he was. Do you think I need to raise the legs and get pedal rod extensions? Jason

Don J. Dixon · Post by **Don J. Dixon** » 17 Feb 2006 4:08 am

Carter has a kit to determine the leg height.Contact them on their website. But I think the best indicator is how you feel and how you can move your legs.
Don
steelsanta@aol.com

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GFI Ultra D-10, Airline 6-string lap steel
steelsanta@aol.com
steelsanta@aol.com

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 17 Feb 2006 5:56 am

If you have about 1" clearance between the top of your knee and the underside of the back apron of the guitar you will be able to fit under the guitar and use a vertical knee lever. Your thighs should be parallel to the floor and your left heel should be on the floor to avoid 'stomping' the pedals.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Bill Yoder · Post by **Bill Yoder** » 17 Feb 2006 6:08 am

I took the legs off,took the inside rod out,made a wood dole the length i wanted to raise it and put it all back in.works great for me.only raises the back of the guitar,but i kinda like it that way.the dole needs to be just small enough to go inside the larger tube,to the top of the inside leg.

Jason Schofield · Post by **Jason Schofield** » 17 Feb 2006 10:41 pm

Actually the top of my knee is touching the apron. Would pedal rod extensions be enough? I'm 6'1" btw.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 18 Feb 2006 4:06 am

Older Franklin's "standard" height was 1" shorter than most other brands. My S/N 065 was built with the shorter legs. I had always slightly touched the pull rods with my right leg but never thought much about it until I worked an outside job in the heat and really had problems with rods touching my leg.

Lynn Owsley would sit in on my steel when he was in this area and always had to lift up the back legs and commented my steel was low. I did some invesigation and found it was lower than most other steels.

I called Paul, Sr about getting 1" longer pedal rods and front Legs and found out he had changed his "standard" to 1" higher some years ago (don't remember when). The extra 1" worked out just right for me.

You can buy 1" or 2" lift kits but that seemed like a "rube goldberg" way of doing it and the reason I went with the new, 1" longer" rods and front legs.

Steven Black · Post by **Steven Black** » 18 Feb 2006 5:14 am

Hello Jason, I am 6'1" and I had to use extenders as well to fit under my guitar, you can get them at hardware stores or order them from George L's or any steel guitar shop like Bobbe Seymour's steel guitar nashville or Scotty's Music.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 18 Feb 2006 7:39 am

Yes, Jason
You will need to extend the pull rods
BUT
when you do, the front legs will be too short for you to be able to level the pedals. THAT'S ANOTHER IMPORTANT MEASUREMENT: HOW FAR OFF THE FLOOR THE PEDALS ARE.

My personal preference is to adjust the pedal rods so that the pedals will bottom out against my finger when the pedals are pressed and my index finger is laying flat on a NON CARPETED floor. That 'safety net' allows you to play on hard floor surfaces as well as short pile carpet without the pedals dragging. WHY? You'll see when you adjust them. It is much easier to push a pedal that's more or less parallel to the floor. If the pedal slopes upward it will just invite you to STOMP the pedal, which is both bad technique and inviting mechanical issues (like body flex).

That's where the wood dowel could be used or else several stores (Scotty's, Seymour's, etc.) sell 'lift kits' which consist of rod extenders and shims you put on the front legs to provide a positive stop against the pedal bar. If you don't do this the clutch on the front legs will slip.

As my buddy Jack suggested, the BEST solution is to have new legs and pedal rods made for the front. Depending on the mfgr or source, that can get REALLY EXPENSIVE.

I hope this explains why just lengthening the pedal rods is not sufficient to solve your problem. I'm 6'2"+ and always have my guitars built 1-2" taller than standard. The standard height seems to work fine for players between 5'10" and 6' or so. It also depends on how long your legs are -- some folks are tall with disproportionally short legs and some are not so tall with long legs.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 18 February 2006 at 07:50 AM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 18 Feb 2006 9:24 am

I agree, it sounds like you need a lift kit. I had a Franklin D-10, ser # 01x, for a few years. Perhaps there is something to the "built short" theory, because nothing I ever did, including extend the legs and pull rods helped enough to get my legs comfortable under that guitar. I think the reason was, on that guitar, the legs also made close to a 90 degree angle with the floor. The geometry was just all wrong for me - the guy I got it from was very short - I was more than a foot taller. I hated trading that guitar away - it had tremendous sound and action - I probably should have tried other things, but I was clueless.

Now, I'm 6'4" and have disproportionately long legs. All my guitars now are standard height, and I use a 2" lift kit from Bobbe Seymour - it's not too Rube Goldberg for me, but I'm an engineer. The other advantage, besides cost, is that you can just pull the lift kit and sell your standard-sized steel more easily if you so desire.

Whatever you do, you need to raise the legs, extend the rods so that the pedal geometry is still OK, and for most guitars (Sierra is an exception), put a spacer on the front legs so that the pedal pressure doesn't pull them down to standard height again. On my Sierra, the front leg extension lock is so tight that it holds against the pedal pressure just fine. But my Franklin definitely needed the leg spacer.

My sense is that, for a "standard" height guitar, one needs around 1" extra front leg and rod height for every 2" in height above around 5'-10" or 6'. If your guitar is around 1" lower than standard, I'd probably make that 5'8"-5'10", so if you were 6', perhaps a 1" kit would work. This is all approximate, though. Measure how much you need to raise the legs to get comfortable, with the pedal rods off. That ought to give you a pretty good idea what lift you need. I have to do this for any new guitar I get - they're all a bit different - I guess there's no exact "standard" height or geometry.

Jason Schofield · Post by **Jason Schofield** » 19 Feb 2006 12:58 pm

It looks like the legs have a good foot of extension so I guess I would only need the pedal rod extensions?

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 19 Feb 2006 1:13 pm

Jason, go to Bobby Seymour’s web site and you will find a kit that will raise the guitar along with the pedal red extensions. I am 6 foot 5 and Mr. Fields made my GFI 2 inches taller for me. Your problem is not unusual; Carter and Steel Guitar Nashville both supply a simple fix for your problem that is not all that expensive either. I used a Carter kit on my first guitar, but I deal mostly with Bobby because he ships the same day I order and Carter only ship once a week, I think on Wednesdays......James