Gauged rollers question

Gene White Jr · Post by **Gene White Jr** » 26 Mar 2019 2:14 pm

Anyone know if there is such thing as gauged rollers for a Fessenden S10 ?

Gene White Jr · Post by **Gene White Jr** » 2 May 2019 5:43 am

No response in over a month, so maybe it's a silly question. How about this: I'm getting a fair amount of string buzz on my Fessenden S10, almost exclusively (or at least most pronounced) on the unwound strings, esp 3. This is what led me to ask about gauged rollers, thinking that the ungauged roller grooves, i.e., 'one size fits all' might be too wide or deep for unwound strings, thus allowing them to buzz. Ideas? Thanks in advance for thoughts on this buzz question. I also wonder if upping 3 to .012 might help--any experience with this?

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 2 May 2019 5:50 am

You might try measuring the width,diameter and axle size and call a few of the guitar manufactures and see if they have something that will fit your guitar. I would call Bill at Williams as he makes gauged rollers and I'm sure he'd sell you a set.

Good luck.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 2 May 2019 5:54 am

The Franklin's do not use gauged rollers. My Franklin is a late 81 (bought new) and never had a problem because they were not gauged.

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 2 May 2019 6:13 am

If they are worn out.. most new gauged rollers need to be custom made.
Best way is to probably mail the old ones in for measurement.

Ron Scott · Post by **Ron Scott** » 2 May 2019 11:17 am

Sometimes moving the string over at the key head at more of an angle and not straight on tightens up the roller enough to take care of it.Hope that helps.RS

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 2 May 2019 12:08 pm

Some Sho-Bud's had string buzz on certain strings. The "fix" was to wind from under the tuning key instead of from the top. That put more pressure on the roller and eliminated the buzz.

I've seen this written about several times.

Back to the Franklin not having gauged rollers. Mr. Franklin told me the buzz was a problem when he worked for Sho-Bud. He worked on the problem and found instead of gauged rollers, he found one gauge roller nut (don't recall if he told me what gauge it was) that if used on all the strings eliminated the problem and he followed through with the same single gauge rollers on his Franklin guitars.

William Holloman · Post by **William Holloman** » 3 May 2019 5:17 am

Gene: To add to my old friend Jack's reply, my Sho Bud has occasional string buzz. The fix that usually works is to sand the bridge with 1500/2000 grit paper as over time, a "groove" will form. Hope this helps.

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 3 May 2019 6:13 am

The reason that you have buzz on the 3rd string is most likely you also have the bar on the 1st and 2nd strings at the same time and both of them are thicker than the 3rd string (especially the 1st) and the nose of the bar gets raised up a bit causing the buzz. Try not covering more strings than you need with the bar on the treble side and hopefully the buzz will go away. I make gauged rollers for folks commonly.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 3 May 2019 9:24 am

William Holloman wrote:Gene: To add to my old friend Jack's reply, my Sho Bud has occasional string buzz. The fix that usually works is to sand the bridge with 1500/2000 grit paper as over time, a "groove" will form. Hope this helps.

William - I believe this discussion is about the rollers, over on the other end of the guitar.

William Holloman · Post by **William Holloman** » 3 May 2019 10:24 am

No Lee. The discussion is about string buzz !! Rollers can cause it, a rough bridge can cause it, a bad string, etc.
Even bar placement can cause it. READ JIM'S POST !!

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 3 May 2019 2:02 pm

Gene White Jr wrote:Anyone know if there is such thing as gauged rollers for a Fessenden S10 ?

William - I believe this discussion is about the rollers, over on the other end of the guitar.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 3 May 2019 2:40 pm

We really need to know exactly where you're getting the buzzing. Is it only at the first couple of frets? Or, are you getting it all up and down the neck? Is it worse or does it change if you press down a little harder on the bar?

Sometimes, buzzing can be caused by the strings not being "formed" to the nut. Try pressing down firmly on each string just in front of the nut rollers with your finger. Another thing you can try is a drop of oil on the rollers to see if that reduces the buzzing.

I do not recommend wrapping the strings under the tuner shaft, or making them pull sideways to eliminate buzz. Either of these practices can increase hysteresis and cause tuning instability. Trading one problem for another is not a good idea.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 3 May 2019 2:52 pm

Ken Metcalf wrote:
Gene White Jr wrote:Anyone know if there is such thing as gauged rollers for a Fessenden S10 ?
William - I believe this discussion is about the rollers, over on the other end of the guitar.

William - I believe this discussion is about the rollers, over on the other end of the guitar.

Gene White Jr · Post by **Gene White Jr** » 3 May 2019 4:47 pm

Thanks for your replies! I'll bet I am indeed covering strings 1 & 2 with the bar when I'm playing 3 (and 4 and 5, probably, too). Another thing to work on! And, yes--the buzz is all up and down the neck, esp closer to the nut where the different string thicknesses are most pronounced, I'm guessing. With that in mind, I wonder if a .012 on string 3 might minimize the string gauge disparity? I'm looking for less sitar and more guitar!

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 3 May 2019 5:12 pm

The sitar effect if you are hearing it is generally not related to the rollers but you can rotate the roller and see if it goes away. It is generally that a flat spot has developed on the changer finger and you can check that by moving the string on the finger a titch and see if it goes away.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 3 May 2019 6:42 pm

Gene, are you using enough bar pressure, and are you muting the strings properly behind the bar with the fingers of your left hand? Also, you can eliminate the nut and nut rollers as a problem source by playing a chord at the 2nd fret while covering the entire nut with the edge of your hand. If firm hand pressure over the nut doesn't stop the buzzing, then (as Jim says), it's probably flat spots on the crown of the changer fingers, or it could simply a problem with your bar control technique.

Gene White Jr · Post by **Gene White Jr** » 4 May 2019 9:41 am

I thank you gentlemen yet again for your time and expertise. I am evaluating each recommendation and will post an update as warranted. In answer to a couple questions: Yes, I believe I am applying enough downward bar pressure, and No, I don't think it's a flat spot on the changer finger being as it's an almost-new Fessy. But I'll check. I shall leave no turn unstoned in my quest to reduce the buzz. Thanks, fellas!

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 4 May 2019 1:12 pm

You are close to Fessenden. I'd take the guitar to Jerry and let him check it over. That will tell if there is a guitar problem.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 May 2019 1:55 pm

Gene White Jr wrote:I thank you gentlemen yet again for your time and expertise. I am evaluating each recommendation and will post an update as warranted. In answer to a couple questions: Yes, I believe I am applying enough downward bar pressure, and No, I don't think it's a flat spot on the changer finger being as it's an almost-new Fessy. But I'll check. I shall leave no turn unstoned in my quest to reduce the buzz. Thanks, fellas!

Not to be critical, but I'd say that 99% of the time when you have a problem like this with a new (or nearly new) guitar, the problem is really improper playing technique. Gauged rollers are NOT a requirement on a 10-string guitar.

How long have you been playing?

Alan Muir · Post by **Alan Muir** » 6 May 2019 3:45 pm

I discovered that my left hand ring finger sometimes puts pressure downward on the strings behind the bar. This causes a buzz. Technique needed adjustment, not the instrument.

Gene White Jr · Post by **Gene White Jr** » 6 May 2019 4:54 pm

I have only been playing steel long enough to know that I don't know enough. And that every aspect of my home-grown technique is suspect. Left hand action behind the bar is a good comment, as is not barring strings 1 & 2 while I'm playing 3,4,5. All of the feedback here is helping me get to the buzz question, which started off as a gauged roller question (if only because I didn't know what to look for). But I'm getting with it now, and appreciate all of the suggestions and comments offered. And I'm going to try the .012 on string 3 to see if that helps.

The Steel Guitar Forum