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Topic: Easiest/Toughest Guitar to Work On |
Jon Schimek
From:
Lyons, Co - USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 9:55 am |
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There has to be a thread on this that I'm not finding, so If you got a link send it my way.
Been adjusting my copedent lately and have been mildly annoyed by adding, or moving changes. I'm interested in knowing what steels are the easiest to make changes to.
In my limited experience Push-pulls and Kline are quite tricky and take a good deal of thought. I have an older MSA which I get annoyed when I need to add a bellcrank since I have to pull the rod out the front apron.
So my question is what are the easiest/toughest guitars to change copedents on? I'm curious about all guitars manufacturers, but most interest in 12 stringers.
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MSA Vintage-XL, Pre-RP Mullen
Nashville 400 w/blackbox, Space Echo. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 9:59 am
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Toughest guitar: early Sho~Bud permanent with the welded bellcranks.
Next toughest guitar: fully loaded D-12 Emmons PP with 9 pedals and 9 knee levers.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 10:12 am
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The easiest I've owned was a Desert Rose. Also, a Sierra Crown or Session is pretty easy. Mullen, ZumSteel, Fessenden, GFI, Williams, and Emmons all-pull aren't hard to work on.
I would avoid older guitars like Sierra Olympic, MSA Classic, Sho~Bud, and Emmons push-pull.
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Tommy Allison
From:
Transfer, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 10:14 am
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| Mullen has the easiest bell cranks to move around. |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 10:35 am
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| I just completed some work on someone's Williams. Very easy. |
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Dan Kelly
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 10:47 am
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I have found that PSG's featuring a "Pull Release" changer can be tricky to get right. On the other hand, once they are set up, they tend to stay that way.
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blah, blah, blah.
Hey You Kids! Get Off My Lawn!
blah, blah, blah. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 10:58 am
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Toughest: ZB
Easiest: Zum, Mullen & most modern all pulls. |
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Jon Schimek
From:
Lyons, Co - USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 11:24 am
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BMI look friendly to work on... Looking at photos it seems like you just hook a pull rod to the cross shaft.... Is it that simple?
edit:
Hmm.. maybe you need to apply a hook on your rod and drill a hole to length... maybe that isn't that fun.
_________________
MSA Vintage-XL, Pre-RP Mullen
Nashville 400 w/blackbox, Space Echo. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 12:43 pm
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Toughest for me so far was ZB Custom.
Easiest has been, really, any of the modern all pull guitars. I've worked on ZB's, Kline (which aren't that hard to work on), Sho~Bud (Professional rack and barrel, and Super Pro),Carter, Williams,and GFI. ZB and the rack and barrel were a pain in the rump.
I have a Mullen that I havent worked on yet. Coming soon though. I want to add a vertical lever and maybe a pedal.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Steve Allison
From:
Eatonton,Ga. U.S.A.
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 1:15 pm
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For the ultimate in ugly nightmaresβ¦β¦ Has to be a HOWARD
Last edited by Steve Allison on 17 Oct 2018 8:36 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 1:22 pm
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| Jon Schimek wrote: |
BMI look friendly to work on... Looking at photos it seems like you just hook a pull rod to the cross shaft.... Is it that simple?
edit:
Hmm.. maybe you need to apply a hook on your rod and drill a hole to length... maybe that isn't that fun. |
About 20 years ago, I bought a BMI S-10 and converted it to an experimental "F Scale" copedent. It was very easy to move things around.
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Al Evans
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 1:57 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| I would avoid older guitars like ... MSA Classic.... |
Having just removed all the rods on my MSA D10 Classic, added and changed some pulls, added a third raise to C6 string 4, and cleaned and lubricated everything, I would tend to agree with b0b. Everything is adjustable. This makes it easy to work on in one way, but a real pain in another.
--Al Evans
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2018 MSA Legend, 2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 2:38 pm
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I'll put in a good word for the latest Excels. The first thing I had to do with mine was move a couple of things around as Mitsuo had slightly misunderstood me. Nice and easy although you need good eyesight as everything's very small and neat!
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 4:54 pm Working on a Sierra
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| b0b wrote: |
The easiest I've owned was a Desert Rose. Also, a Sierra Crown or Session is pretty easy. Mullen, ZumSteel, Fessenden, GFI, Williams, and Emmons all-pull aren't hard to work on.
I would avoid older guitars like Sierra Olympic, MSA Classic, Sho~Bud, and Emmons push-pull. |
I've had several Sierras, they are all easy to work on, IF you pre-plan your work. The one's with the slotted bellcranks are real easy. Changing out the Olympic bellcranks isn't hard, it just cost a few bucks. Plus, at that time you can upgrade to "Keyed" shafts.
I've had Dekleys (they have terrible bellcranks with very small setscrews, but is still a great Guitar to play).
I've had Sho~Buds with rack & barrel, Plus I've had the Sho~Buds with bellcranks... good guitars.
The MSA just required me to be patient & you'll get through it & be happy on the other end.
One of my friends had an Emmons, it rattled so bad you couldn't give me one.
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Steel Guitar players are members of a Special Family |
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Benjamin Franz
From:
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 17 Oct 2018 5:30 pm
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| I pulled apart and refurbished a ZB a couple of years ago. I will never do that again. |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2018 7:05 am Easiest/toughest guitar to work on
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| My first guitar in 1969 was an Emmons PP. It only had 2 knee levers, so I homemade two more. This guitar was where I cut my teeth working on guitars. Several years ago, I got another Emmons PP, extended E-9. After a lot of years, I was surprised I still remembered how to work on them. I got a Kline after that first Emmons The Kline had a single tree design that for me, would have been a nightmare to work on. Luckily, it never needed any work. I think ZB had a similar design. I think any guitar with this system would be on the tough to work on list. The Zum I play now is easy to work on. When I got it, it belonged to a guy that had Alzheimer's and he had the C6th neck really screwed up. I had never worked on an all pull guitar or owned one before. It took me 6 hours to basically take all the rods out and get them back in order. In that 6 hours, I learned that the all pull was a simpler system and easy to work on. |
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Jon Schimek
From:
Lyons, Co - USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2018 8:29 am
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Thanks. I appreciate all the comments. As I maneuver into putting more thought into my copedent I'm really starting to see the advantage of more modern and often more expensive guitars.
Does anybody make quick connector type bell crank for round cross-shafts? I think my MSA would be a breeze to work on if I could just slip a bell-crank wherever I want without having to pull the cross-shaft. I realize it's easier on a non-round cross-shaft but it seems like it would be really great for testing copedents.
EDIT:
The bees knees may be to have a quick connector bell crank with the adjustable height mechanism that blantons are famous for....
EDIT 2:
Or perhaps a single bell crank that accepts pull rods across the entire width of the guitar... essentially use the BMI type logic. It may get heavy, but would be handy for playing around.
_________________
MSA Vintage-XL, Pre-RP Mullen
Nashville 400 w/blackbox, Space Echo. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2018 9:39 am
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| Benjamin Franz wrote: |
| I pulled apart and refurbished a ZB a couple of years ago. I will never do that again. |
Amen! 
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Gloria Baldwin
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2018 10:07 am
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Doesn't get any easier to change a copedent than having to change it on a Harlin Brothers Multi-Kord. Outdated yes but the easiest by far. Just sayin'.
Gloria |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 18 Oct 2018 1:14 pm
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Recently bought a Mullen 12 7x4 and have moved a lot of things around from my initial copedent. I've found it very easy to work with. Rods have a little hairpin (easy to remove with needle nose pliers) that hold them to the bellcranks (which are also very easy to move). Pedal/Lever travel is a simple adjustment. I've literally changed and tuned a simple pull in 10 minutes...the mechanics are that easy to work with.
Toughest part is adding a pull that sits underneath other rods on the same string, but I'm sure that's the same story no matter what rig you're working on. With the Mullen design, the actual mechanics of the change are simple 
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 19 Oct 2018 2:14 am
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I would count the Franklin in "not easy" because of the round cross rods and like the Emmons PP's to remove or add another puller is a task.
Probably why it still has the copedent that I ordered it with 37 years ago. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2018 6:38 am
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| Easiest has to be any Fender cable guitar (400, 800, 1000, or 2000). |
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James Collett
From:
San Dimas, CA
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Posted 19 Oct 2018 6:42 am
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A Sho-Bud Fingertip belongs in the "Not Easy" category. I love mine, but timing and adjusting the pulls is a tedious and time-consuming task. And forget trying to switch holes on the changer finger--unless you have 4 hands and 3 pairs of needle nose pliers, you'll be at it a while. It sure does sound good and look pretty, though!
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James Collett |
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Larry Petree
From:
Bakersfield. Ca. USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2018 7:47 am Fender PS 210
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| This guitar is the very easiest I have ever worked on. To make a change just turn in a matching screw, done. |
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Jon Schimek
From:
Lyons, Co - USA
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