Stones and Steels

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 29 Aug 2018 4:11 am

I posted my remarks before I listened to the track, preferring to rely on the critiques of my Forum brothers with regard to the steel-part on the recording. I've now listened and I wish I hadn't! It reminds me of how I sounded when I first brought a steel guitar back to the house in 1972.

And no, it wasn't me!

(I've never 'got' Mick Jagger's voice - listening to a Stones record is an endurance test for me.)

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 29 Aug 2018 5:06 am

Possible. But Andrew Oldham had a pretty tight group of musicians around him, the so-called Oldham Orchestra. But with scanty documentation, yeah, anything is possible.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 29 Aug 2018 6:53 am

Roger do you know other Enlish steel who were around in '64?
I have an album (recorded later) by Joe Brown's Homebrew which featured a certain Roger Kew if I remember his name correctly.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 29 Aug 2018 7:05 am

That's Roger McKew. I've been in a couple of bands with Roger (Joe Brown's Bruvvers - after the 'Home Brew' experiment) and Freddie Starr's group. Roger told me he had 'dabbled' with steel but I can't imagine it would have been that early.

Gerry Hogan didn't take up steel until '65, if I remember correctly. In any case he, too, would never have played out-of-tune regardless of what stage he'd reached in the learning process. Rod King was an early exponent (That's Rod on the Hollies' 'Jennifer Eccles') and so was Basil Henriques. None of these guys, though, would have (in my opinion) perpetrated what we hear on this track.

My money's on one of the studio hot-shots best known as guitar players but having a stab at PSG on the 'How hard can it be???' principal.

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 29 Aug 2018 7:20 am

My money's on one of the studio hot-shots best known as guitar players but having a stab at PSG on the 'How hard can it be???' principal.

And this keeps bringing me back to Jimmy Page, his apparent neophyte status in 1969 notwithstanding. Circumstantial evidence puts him at the scene of the crime.

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 29 Aug 2018 7:22 am

Roger Rettig wrote:I've never 'got' Mick Jagger's voice - listening to a Stones record is an endurance test for me.

My sentiments exactly, since I first heard "Tell Me" on the radio in my impressionable youth. But what was worse was Jagger's early mouth organ work. He made Bob Dylan sound like Toots Thielemans in comparison. Brian Jones, on the other hand, was a decent little harp player. At least when sober.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 29 Aug 2018 7:36 am

One other name is Martin Jenner. He was a fine guitar player and was in Cliff Richard's band for a while. His steel playing, though, was rudimentary at best. Listen to his pitchiness on the Everly Brothers' reunion concert at the Albert Hall in '83.

Maybe he got a steel too late to be a contender in this instance, though - I honestly don't know.

Jack - that's funny!

Godfrey Arthur · Post by **Godfrey Arthur** » 29 Aug 2018 10:50 am

Joachim Kettner wrote:This aticle is from '69. It says "his latest acqisition"

Good eye Joachim!

Post Posted 27 Feb 2011 9:31pm

Ken Byng wrote:Jimmy Page was not the only Led Zep member to own a pedal steel. Bassist John Paul Jones bought a ZB guitar in the mid 1970's when I worked for the UK ZB importer. Jones and a roadie came into the showroom, and told owner Eric Snowball that he would like to buy a green single 10 model. When Jones' roadie presented Eric with a company cheque, Eric queried it, as they wanted to take the guitar away with them. The roadie had a quiet word in Eric's ear as to who the buyer was and they went on their way with the ZB.

"Your Time Is Gonna Come" Led Zep with some bar drags:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeweFJpz2ac

Does the playing sound familiar?

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 29 Aug 2018 12:01 pm

In 1964 Jimmy P was not the stoned hippy dude he became later. He was one of the busiest session guitarists in London. I think he, like most of the rest of us, would have remembered his first recording experience on pedal steel. It could be that he just didnâ€™t want to â€˜fess up to it, though I donâ€™t see why not.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 30 Aug 2018 8:20 am

In his autobiography Bill Wyman writes that Keith Richards learned about the high string tuning from George Jones guitar player and he later used it on "Jumping Jack Flash".
Here's an article about the 1964 concert:
https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local ... 534920.php

Alan Bidmade · Post by **Alan Bidmade** » 30 Aug 2018 11:44 am

Hope I'm not hi-jacking this thread, but Big Jim Sullivan was a monster guitar player. Tom Jones used to have a TV series in the UK in (probably late 60's or early 70's) and he would do a song each week with just Big Jim accompanying him. As a learner guitarist at the time, it was an absolute knock-out to see and hear what an electric guitar could do.
And I agree - Big Jim was a superb musician who would not, I'm sure, put his name to anything that was out of tune.

David Langdon · Post by **David Langdon** » 30 Aug 2018 12:08 pm

Roger, Martin Jenner only started playing pedal steel when he joined Barbara Dickson's band in about 1975. He had a 'Driftwood' pedal steel built by Pete Wilsher another UK player. Dave.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 30 Aug 2018 12:17 pm

Okay, Dave. I wondered.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 31 Aug 2018 10:44 pm

A yardbirds outtake from 1967 with pedal steel, again a little pitchy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4p7q_2gwj0

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 1 Sep 2018 12:34 am

Yikes! Now thatâ€™s bad.

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 1 Sep 2018 1:53 am

Another nod towards Page.

Andy DePaule · Post by **Andy DePaule** » 1 Sep 2018 3:30 pm

Roger Rettig wrote:No, Fred - Gordon was already a good player when I first took up steel in the early '70s. It's much more likely to be one of the Stones - I did a tour alongside them in 1965 and can attest to the fact that tuning wasn't something that troubled them too much.

Roger got that right for sure!
I saw the Stones in London at some theater in 65 and the girls were all standing and jumping on the seats screaming their bloody little stupid heads off and crying their silly eyes out.... You couldn't hear a thing but the screaming.

Also couldn't even see much because of them being up on the seats.
Thats all I remember of it except getting a glimpse of Brian Jones darting across the stage with his guitar.
All in all a big waste on time and money and my hearing is still screwed up!

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 1 Sep 2018 3:42 pm

I will add a little to my story.

I was Eden Kane's guitarist (EK had a string of big hits in the UK from '61 - '64; believe me, I know the name means nothing in this country but that was a plum job for me to land at 18 years of age) and we were booked to headline a tour. The Rolling Stones were quite new at the time but they'd already had a couple of hits. Kane, though, took precedence based on his career to that point and we topped the bill (or 'closed' the show, if you like).

I can well remember the rhythm guitarist in our group saying to me on the first night: 'We should listen to these guys and see what all the fuss is about'. We stood in the wings for maybe three of their songs, then Ben turned to me and said: 'Let's go and have a beer...' It was, by any standards we held dear, pretty awful.

They had the last laugh, though. Halfway through the tour they released 'Not Fade Away' and it quickly became their first #1 record. By this point it was becoming clear that it would be more fitting if they closed the show and so the running-order was changed. I've always thought that must have been a bitter pill for Rick ('Eden Kane') to swallow but he bore it with apparent stoicism.

Godfrey Arthur · Post by **Godfrey Arthur** » 1 Sep 2018 9:25 pm

Dan Beller-McKenna wrote:Another nod towards Page.

To me if you listen to the playing, it sounds like Page just listening to his Zep tracks on psg.

Might be reason why he never brought it up with you Roger.

As an aside, wonder who inspired Page to take up steel?

At least we know that some Page's guitar licks and some of the Fab Four's were inspired by this guy:

Bobby Parker

Watch Your Step. What Zep and Beatle's songs does the riff remind you of?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC9UlURkGLI

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 2 Sep 2018 8:19 am

As an aside, wonder who inspired Page to take up steel?

Albert Lee maybe. Roger?

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 2 Sep 2018 8:34 am

I read an interview where Page himself cited Albert Lee as an influence. But, as Joachim suggests, I turn that over to Roger for authenticity. Itâ€™s kinda like when Eric Johnson cited Chet Atkins. Chet said something like, â€œIâ€™m glad he listens to me, but I sure donâ€™t hear it in his music.â€

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 2 Sep 2018 8:46 am

Godfrey Arthur wrote:
Watch Your Step. What Zep and Beatle's songs does the riff remind you of?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC9UlURkGLI

Yeah, Godfrey. Thatâ€™s I Feel Fine. Itâ€™s also One Way Out by The Allman Bros.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 3 Sep 2018 10:01 am

I really don't know. I can't imagine Albert encouraging anyone to take up steel. Maybe Page was on a session with Rod King?

Albert told me he did try steel very briefly but this conversation took place in the wings of the Biloxi Harrah's showroom in 2000 just as Buddy was warming up on Black Bart! He looked at me, we looked at Emmons and Al said: 'Just as well I packed that in!(or words to that effect)'

I think Albert had a Denley steel but not for very long. I'm away working now but I'll ask him next chance I get.

Godfrey Arthur · Post by **Godfrey Arthur** » 3 Sep 2018 10:26 am

Fred Treece wrote: Yeah, Godfrey. Thatâ€™s I Feel Fine. Itâ€™s also One Way Out by The Allman Bros.

Yeah Fred, my brother clued me onto that one!

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 3 Sep 2018 11:44 am

Roger, I didnâ€™t mean that Albert influenced Jimmy to take up steel. Page was just remarking on his standard guitar influences.

Here is a YouTube of Albert Lee playing non-pedal steel on a Heads Hands And Feet song. He sounds about 300 times better than Jimmy P. did on psg.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v41oBFBFIVo
I thought there was a tube of him playing pedal steel with HH&F too but I couldnâ€™t find it.