What is the attraction of the Rick Bakelites?

[Bill McCloskey]

The other thread on Ray's collection going to the pawn shop, and just how many there are and at what prices, thought I'd start a new thread on people's thoughts on the value of the Rick Bakelites.

A decade or more ago I had gotten excited about owning one. They looked cool, people seemed to treasure them, and they supposedly had "the sound" whatever that sound is.

I eventually bought one. it played hot, way too hot for my tastes. It was heavy as all get out. It was fragile and I was always afraid of breaking the neck. And it certainly didn't have my sound.

Plus there were so many different versions, hard to know which to buy anyway.

So: what are people's opinions of these art deco instruments?

[Levi Gemmell]

There are probably three or four Bakelite Rickenbackers in New Zealand - I have only seen a string-thru B6 on a local auction site, but I have had the opportunity to play a string-through Ace student model. I for one, would love to own one in the future but I am reluctant to try to ship one from the USA if I cannot take it in person.

Personally, and I'm sure many others will agree, "that sound," with its harmonic overtones present in the decay (or however you want to describe it) is one of the most unique sounds available to a lap steel guitarist and is singularly beautiful - to say nothing of the attack, sustain, and other qualities. The weight didn't bother me, but I can understand that you might get nervous if you owned one of the fragile things.

[Cartwright Thompson]

Just listen to Jerry Byrd’s “Hi-Fi Guitar” LP. That is the tone of a pre-war Bakelite Rick.
Having owned about a dozen of them over the years, I never gave a thought to their perceived fragility.

[Bill McCloskey]

Why so many? Did they all have a different sound? Did you own them all at the same time, or one after the other?

[Harry Sheppard]

Bill, I think you answered your own question in your signature. Looking at the instruments you list in your signature, I count 5 resonator guitars. They are all basically the same with only a few minor differences, number of strings, body size, a little tone difference, etc. I have also owned dozens of Bakelite Ricks and they all sound different, come in 6, 7, 8 or even 10 strings, pre-war wide pickup, post war narrow pickup, etc. Like your resonator guitars, each one is just different.

[Ian McLatchie]

What's the attraction of bakelites? Just about everything, as far as I'm concerned. The inherently rich and complex tone of the bakelite is complemented perfectly by the horseshoe pickup. They're gorgeous objects and lovely players in every way (the strings could stand to be a little higher but one adjusts to that quickly enough). As Harry says, they're all different, and they're certainly not all created equal. The pre-war, intra-war and post-war guitars all have a slightly different tone and even instruments within a few serial numbers of each other can vary widely in quality (i.e. the Rickenbacher "moan." Some have lots, some have a little, some have almost none). I'm not crazy about some of the later innovations such as the clunky, tone-sucking tailpiece, but I've never played a bakelite I wouldn't be happy to own. As for fragility, bakelite is definitely brittle but it was also the stuff of bowling balls and telephones. I'd be more worried about any lightly braced, thinly planed acoustic instrument.

[Andy Volk]

About 15 years ago, I bought a pristine '37 Bakelite from a forumite for a great price. Except for a scratch on the back, It looked like it had left the music store last week. I later learned it had been re-wired backwards and had to have that fixed. The case smelled like about 30 pairs of old gym sox so I left it in the sun for 2 days and that helped a bit.

All that aside, I was really excited to own one of these guitars and anxious to experience the "mojo" and "moan" everyone was talking about. Yet, I found that the guitar didn't really speak to me.

String-thru pickups are indeed very rich, full and reinforce harmonics in beautiful ways though if this guitar moaned, it was lost on me. I thought the nut was too low and was always taping the neck with my bar when I got a wee bit excited on swing tunes. This is more my problem than the guitar's. I eventually sold it but still kind of regret that decision and am always thinking of getting another one to see if it was the guitar or me.

But, all things considered, Todd Clinesmith's guitars combine the very best of the past with the best current build tech and they speak to me more than the Bakelites.

[Jack Hanson]

I don't know what year mine is; it has the "T" headstock logo, the narrow pickup, the metal non-string through bridge, and white flying saucer knobs. To me, it sounds awesome. Full and rich with sustain for days. About the only other lap steel I would even consider trading if for would be a Ric frypan.

[David Matzenik]

I have a 1935 bakelite Ric which was in pretty bad shape when I got it. Being handy, I restored it and Rick Aiello recharged the shoes. It has a smooth tone which sounds better to me, than the aluminum guitars which sound a bit tiny at times. But that could be the recordings too. The B6 is powerful and is dead quiet when plugged in and turned on. Tonally, if I hit it right, there is a gorgeous buttery quality to the sound. But that is totally subjective, how do you put sound into words? I would like a B 8 string but the 7 and 8s have too close a string spacing for me.

[David Ball]

I've had several bakelites, both narrow and wide magnet, several early fry pans and a bunch of the stamped metal Ricks. They've all been nice, but by far the best of any is one particular, very worn, model 59 student model. It's an early one with one knob and the beige crinkle paint, and it's one that was stuffed with newspaper apparently at the factory. I've had several model 59s, but this one is the killer. To my ears, it blows away all the other Ricks I've had (which is why it's the one I still own....).

Dave

[Mike Neer]

When I got my first B6 (Wartime) is when I learned how wonderful a steel can sound and feel. Rickenbachers, both bakelites and especially Frypans, are benchmarks for me.

I had not played a Rickenbacher in a long time until I took possession of Sol’s post-war and while I am certainly not kicking my Clinesmiths out of bed, it has been fun to fool around with it.

[C. E. Jackson]

RICKENBACHER MODEL B (chrome plates): c. 1937


This is my best sounding bakelite. These old bakelites sound very good.


1937 RICKENBACHER ELECTRO SILVER HAWAIIAN (1 knob)


















The SILVER HAWAIIAN ELECTRO STEEL was the first RICKENBACHER ELECTRO produced in 1937 with the body
made from chrome-plated brass sheet metal. The 1937 SILVER HAWAIIAN ELECTRO model also used the same
chrome-plated 1 1/2" wide magnets for the adjustable pickup (patent no. 2089171) as the 1937 bakelite
Rickenbacher models. The 1937 Silver Hawaiian Steels have an excellent sound that, in my opinion, is superior
to later non-brass sheet metal steels with different pickups, and competes with the bakelites.

C. E. Jackson

[Ian McLatchie]

Both the NS and Model 59 I had sounded rather ordinary, but I know people who love them. I have a steel-bodied Silver Hawaiian, however (also 1937), that I like nearly as much as the bakelites. I've never had the chance to A/B steel and brass SH's but I've played enough of them that I must've encountered both and I haven't noticed a great tonal variation among them. Mine is extremely mellow, far more than either of the other steel-bodied Rickenbachers I've owned.

[Bill Sinclair]

I have one of the one-piece bakelite student models that I love. This one is stenciled "Academy". I do have more trouble keeping it in tune than any of my other steels, especially on an outdoor gig. There are conflicting opinions on whether that is due to the bakelite construction but I tend to think so.

With one of the bands I play with, I always gig with my D8 Stringmaster but just bring the bakelite to rehearsals. Everyone in the band likes the sound of the little Academy guitar better. I think it has better low end for bluesy solo stuff while the Fender has more clarity for chords and has plenty of treble for "cut" when you need it. Different animals, really, and coming from a guy who can barely play.

[Mark Eaton]

As far as the sound - I like the sound - but I don't own one. I've played a fair number of them over the years and have heard them up close and personal but I've always been a bit wary of the fact that they are made out of an old plastic material.

This thread brought to mind a topic I started from about 11 years ago concerning lap steel playing by the late great Mike Auldridge. Link is at the bottom of my post.

Mike played on an album with the band Carolina Star which was released in '07 with his old buddy and one of the Seldom Scene originals, John Starling. Really good stuff. On one or more of the tracks he played lap steel, including the Little Feat classic, Willin'.

I knew at the time that Mike had recently taken ownership of a D-8 MSA SuperSlide and I was interested in one for myself. And awhile back I in fact bought a D-8 SuperSlide from a forum member.

Here are some comments in that thread from Mr. Auldridge:

Mark and Howard... I used my Rickenbacher 6 string (from the 1930's) and Lowell George's Fender Twin Reverb on the cut of Willin' in the studio. The engineer, George Massenburg, owns Lowell's old amp, which was the same amp used on the original cut of Willin', engineered by Massenburg. We did the CD release party on Feb 23 at the Birchmere, and I used my Super Slide double neck played through my Stereo Steel set up. The Super Slide holds the tuning better than the old Rick, and sounds really close in tone.

Mike

Mark,

The problem with the old Ric lap steels is that they all have that staying in tune issue. They sound wonderful, but the bakelite is unstable I guess. They go out of tune as soon as you lay it on the heat of your lap, not to mention the heat of the stage lights. When I worked with Lylye Lovett, every night I had to tune the Ric several times within one song. The Super Slide is as close to the Ric tone as anything I've heard, and it stays in tune.

Carolina Star is booked to play with Emmylou Harris again at the Hardly Strickly Festival in the fall.... the three dobro players doing a set probably won't happen though. But you never know what might develop over the next six months.

Mike

The last line above refers to my idea having three great dobroists that fall on stage at the same time for Hardly Strictly Bluegrass in San Francisco (Auldridge, Douglas, Ickes). Mike was out with Emmylou at the Fall festival as the Sunday evening closing act with Carolina Star as her band. Unfortunately John Starling was ill and couldn't make the trip. A couple nights prior Mike was given a Lifetime Achievement Award at the IBMA convention in Nashville. Along with the
music the highlight of the festival was Emmylou's mention of the award and the introduction of Mike to the massive audience. Emmy's extremely complimentary comments about Mike and his role in the resonator guitar world were the height of eloquence.

Back to the Bakelite. Though I do own a handful of vintage instruments, the majority here have been built after 2000. Particularly with electric guitars and steels, I follow the advice of my former long-time guitar teacher. He is a veteran full-time pro and though he owns a few vintage pieces, his take is that he usually goes with newer guitars because there is less to go wrong with them and as a tool for the job they are often more reliable than vintage gear.

And as far as the overused term "mojo" among guitar people, I agree that there's a little something to it, but I think the idea of it is way overrated.

Link to the original thread:

ttps://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=104090&highlight=

[Bill McCloskey]

Well, it is a buyers market https://www.ebay.com/sch/beaverton-pawn ... pg=&_from=

Most of the bakelites at $500, many with no bid. Some as low as $450. The only one grabbing some attention is 7 string, but that is going for way under $1k. The frypan is only going for $600 and change!

So what do these prices tell you? Other than there is a glut of them on the market.

[Doug Beaumier]

Well, first of all, it's very foolish to list all of them at the same time. That makes them look less rare and it dilutes the potential bidding. It's smarter to sell them one or maybe two at a time, a few weeks apart. And the the prices (the bids) will go up quite a bit on the last day or the last couple of hours of the auctions.

[Allen Hutchison]

Well, first of all, it's very foolish to list all of them at the same time. That makes them look less rare and it dilutes the potential bidding. It's smarter to sell them one or maybe two at a time, a few weeks apart. And the the prices (the bids) will go up quite a bit on the last day or the last couple of hours of the auctions.

Correct Doug! Also, the seller is limiting potential sales by NOT offering international shipping IMHO

[Bill Groner]

Well, first of all, it's very foolish to list all of them at the same time. That makes them look less rare and it dilutes the potential bidding. It's smarter to sell them one or maybe two at a time, a few weeks apart. And the the prices (the bids) will go up quite a bit on the last day or the last couple of hours of the auctions.

Correct Doug! Also, the seller is limiting potential sales by NOT offering international shipping IMHO

Calm down Allen, there aren't any left handers listed.

[Ian McLatchie]

A buyer's market? Not that I've noticed. Bakelite prices are up significantly over a few years ago. As for the eBay frying pan, that's a Shot Jackson with a fake horseshoe pickup. Add a zero to the current bid and you're closer to the market value of a Rickenbacher.

I love the Academy steels, too. The only reason I sold the one I owned was because of the non-adjustable pickup - too weak on the bass strings. They have their own sound, though, and are really pretty. The blue ones are my favorite.

[Garry Vanderlinde]

Playing my Bakelite makes me a better player. It's an honest guitar that lets you hear your flaws in technique and tone because of its clear, clean tone. What you put into it, it gives you right back...in your face warts and all. They don't "moan" on their own, you've got to bring it out, if you can. I can get close sometimes.

This guy should could get the moan out of it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmIzM4kkMOg