Do you still play slide guitar?

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 26 Jul 2005 3:54 am

I played slide and standard guitar for 20 years before I ever even tried lap steel, and it was from playing slide that I finally became convinced that I needed a pedal steel guitar. It recently occurred to me that I've barely touched slide since I now have a steel; like, why bother? Everything you'd want to play those melodies is in there, somewhere, on a steel guitar. Is there any practical reason besides showmanship and evocation of a certain primitive mood to keep playing slide?

MUSICO · Post by **MUSICO** » 26 Jul 2005 4:00 am

I don´t but there again I never did.

But I can imagine that standing centre stage singing a blues while you accompany yourself on slide acoustic guitar is an experience few get from playing PSG.

Jeremy WILLIAMS
Barcelona Spain

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 26 Jul 2005 4:28 am

I don't play slide at ALL.. I do feel however,that as far as tone is concerned, I like the sound of a six string guitar set up for slide [with the right player] or a lap steel for an "authentic"} blues or rock "Slide guitar" sound.. A pedal steel can do a decent approximation,but for some reason it seems to lack the "soul" of a good slide or lap player. Just MHO... bob

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 26 Jul 2005 5:22 am

For solo or small groups, there is certainly a niche for slide. That "primitive" sound is a better fit with many of the Americana genres. And it's more portable, for small gigs & venues, or when you're the utility guy playing multiple instruments.

My current example: I have been jamming with a vocal/harp guy who is very good, and we're working up a bunch of duets for gigs where they can't afford a full band -- obviously some blues, but a wider range of styles as well -- so I'm switching from standard guitar to slide D to lap-style lo-bass G as needed. Will probably need 4-5 guitars on stage by the time set list is completed. For this gig I have to make all my own rhythm as well as my own solos.

Gear for slide: Dobro roundneck, straight-sided brass or glass slide, 0.013" strings, Shubb classic-guitar capo. Telecaster, curved brass slide, 0.012" strings, Paige capo.

Gear for lapstyle: Johnson tricone, Oahu guitar w/ Fishman RE/HB pickup, 0.016" strings on both, Scheerhorn bar, Beard capo. May also use National New Yorker if another tuning is needed.

Not sure about amplification yet, possibly Roland Micro-Cube line out into PA, or Fender VibroChamp w/ some EFX pedals. Want to keep it small. [This message was edited by D Schubert on 26 July 2005 at 08:27 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 26 Jul 2005 6:31 am

I've developed an evil glare for slide guitar players. If any lead guitarist dares to put a slide on his finger when I'm on stage, I glare at him. If that doesn't intimidate him, I smoke his ass on the next solo.

Pedal steel is the ultimate evolution of the slide guitar. Put away that Coricidin bottle. The steel player has all those parts covered.

Do get more of the "slide guitar feel", use a Shubb bar. It just naturally makes your hand want to shake instead of roll for vibrato.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 26 Jul 2005 6:36 am

Playing slide includes a combination of fretting and slide playing, especially if you are playing delta blues stuff. There are certain licks that can't be replicated on a lap steel, that require fretting.

That said, I haven't picked up my national steel since moving into lap and pedal steel. I guess I've out grown all those old Robert Johnson licks.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 26 Jul 2005 6:56 am

In 1973 I laid my roundneck dobro on my lap (with a nut extension), never having it upright since then.

Greg Vincent · Post by **Greg Vincent** » 26 Jul 2005 7:00 am

"Do you still play slide guitar?"

Evidently, most sound men seem to think I do.

-GV[This message was edited by Greg Vincent on 26 July 2005 at 08:03 AM.][This message was edited by Greg Vincent on 26 July 2005 at 08:42 AM.]

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 26 Jul 2005 7:27 am

Bobby Lee, I think I've used that same evil glare -- when I'm the one sitting down behind the "real steel".

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 26 Jul 2005 7:34 am

Yes - I've played slide guitar since I started playing guitar in the late 60s, and still find places where that's what is needed. It's a different instrument, and I don't think the steel has everything covered. I'm sorry, but I've never heard a steel guitarist sound like Muddy Waters' Tele, Earl Hooker's old Gibsons, or Fred McDowell's old archtops, for example. The combination of fretted and slid notes is something the steel just cannot do. It's possible to get the same notes, but they sound different to me, and vive la difference. Think Will Ray.

That said, I generally don't care for steel and slide guitar concurrently unless something is done to clearly distinguish them. It can all turn to mush too easily. But properly separated in style, the two sounds can work together well. Just my opinion.

Edited to add: b0b, I have also given slide guitar players the evil glare when playing steel. Far too often, they encroach on the steel's sonic territory and it does turn to mush.[This message was edited by Dave Mudgett on 26 July 2005 at 08:37 AM.]

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 26 Jul 2005 7:47 am

evocation of a certain primitive mood

PRIMITIVE MOOD?!?
Have you lost your mind?

I said something akin to this in another thread and the villagers had their pitchforks and were coming up the hill in no time.
In fact I could SWEAR I saw your face in the crowd.

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 26 Jul 2005 8:56 am

b0b, that's the single funniest thing I seen you post on this forum in the 5 months I've been reading the posts.... especially the "smoke his ass" part... still laughing as I type this reply.

However, although I have never used a finger slide on a electric guitar, I do love bringing out my old 6 string Magnatone lap steel on blues numbers.... I think it's as much the sound of the over driven pickup, and the "harsh" (almost slammin' down) use of the bar I do when playing lap steel blues that not only sounds more authentic, but "feels" really great... probably just good therapy for the anal pedal side of me.

I've also experimented with using a bar on an acoustic 12 string guitar (lap style).... very interesting sound when using lower strings and hammering on-off, ect....

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 26 Jul 2005 9:20 am

Marty - take the bolts out of your neck, stop lurching and the villagers will settle right down. It helps to extend your little finger when you drink tea too, fools 'em every time.

P.S.-

Have a GREAT day!

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 26 Jul 2005 9:46 am

Pedal Steel and Slide Guitar are two different animals and should be looked at as such. I play both lead and steel and have always tried to play slide when the job called for it. One example is the Little Texas tune "God Blessed Texas". A band I played in did that song and I tried it on steel but it just sounded more like the real thing with the old finger slide. I use two types, mostly a small thick glass slide on my little finger and also a small thin metal slide I like to use with the neck and middle pickups on my guitar. It gets a pretty good Dobro sound with the 1st string tuned to D. I think that Bruce Bouton and also the guy who played steel for Garth Brooks both played slide guitar as well as steel. There's a mindset that goes with each thing that you've got to get into....JH in Va.

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It's all on 12, who needs 20!

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 26 Jul 2005 9:54 am

Yeah, that b0b's a real hellion.

I just play all their licks back to them on steel and then do a bunch of stuff they can't do.

Using a slide on my Tele is a problem cuz my action is SO low that I accidentally fret the strings more often than not.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 26 Jul 2005 10:07 am

Bravo b0b, Bravo! I detect primitive urges to mark territory here

Never had to compete with a slide player yet but did get the opportunity to stomp on an encroaching organist once.

Mark Metdker · Post by **Mark Metdker** » 26 Jul 2005 10:13 am

It's no real problem for me since I perform double duty. I play strats, and I have a particular strat that is set up for slide. Heavy strings, higher action and tuned to an open E. it gets a really nice, nasty tone through the VHT amp and tube screamer. Can't get that tone through the Zum.

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John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 26 Jul 2005 10:38 am

Methinks bOb and Marty need to listen to some real slide players like Ry Cooder or Howard Emmerson, and not some Duane wannabes. In the hands of a masterful player, slide guitar is a remarkable style that can not even be approached on steel. I happen to love and play both. They're just not the same thing, and really shouldn't be compared.
JB
Kline U-12, GFI D-10, ancient Baldwin?Bud S-10, Waitin' on the Shobud S-10 bought from Bobbe yesterday, 2 Nationals, 2 Dobros, bunch o' Teles, and a ton of lap steels and bottleneckers.

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 26 Jul 2005 12:26 pm

Well, I guess that about wraps it up, eh?
Might as well close this one.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 26 Jul 2005 12:34 pm

For playing slide lead with a band, a pedal steel can usually do better, and can play in any key, and get any chord. A Stevens style bar helps (I use a Shubb-Pearse #2). You just need the right FX unit or an alternate amp to get the tube distortion. On the other hand, to play tradional slide blues solo, you need a round-neck 6-string to get all the fretted notes and do all the wild strumming and bass string thumping. And I find it really difficult to get the Elmore James "Dust My Broom" lick right on pedal steel. The chromatic strings get in the way. Can others do that on pedal steel?

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 26 Jul 2005 2:21 pm

I think David has hit upon it. If we are talking about slide lead guitar ala Duane Almond then a pedal or lap steel works fine, but if you are trying to get that alternate bass thump thump of an slide player like Catfish Keith or Bob Brozman, don't think its going to happen on anything but a fretted instrument. [This message was edited by Bill McCloskey on 26 July 2005 at 03:21 PM.]

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 26 Jul 2005 2:28 pm

John B., I think the issue b0b and Marty were addressing wasn't the quality of slide guitar at all but the annoying tendency of some of these fool "Duane wannabees" who insist on pulling it out when there's already a pedal steel player on the stage who really CAN smoke 'em at their own game.

Ry C. or David L. et al can play some great stuff but I've never seen either of them try to share the stage with a pedal guitar - it's a combination that's bound to sound bad, and I don't mean that in a good way.[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 26 July 2005 at 03:30 PM.]

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 26 Jul 2005 2:37 pm

Actually Dave, I have played with some good slide players and when they play their leads and fills I just grab chord voices (usually moving but not glissing), sometimes in a really staccato way and it works fine. But then again, I make it a point to not clash with other instruments by striving for the stylistic counterpoint.

All I know is the slide better end directly over the fret!

[This message was edited by Marty Pollard on 26 July 2005 at 03:38 PM.]

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 26 Jul 2005 2:40 pm

No way can a steel guitar cop the feel of a really good slide player, or vice versa.
A lot of my reasoning is based on the different backgrounds of many steel players vs blues slide players.
You can take the boy outa.......
Don Curtis and I argue about this all the time. Playing country steel for a long time gives one an "accent", very hard if not impossible to get rid of, the same with blues players(like myself). Hard to lose that accent. JimP

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 26 Jul 2005 2:51 pm

Most of the blues guitar players I know suffer not only from an accent but more importantly a small vocabulary and a lack of fluency.