Copedent critique please? "C" pedal renegade

[Claire Winter]

Hi y'all, so great to be back in the steel saddle again after losing more than a year to health problems. PSG is a huge joy for me, and a joyous anti-Alzheimer's regimen for this 70-year-old (never too late to start PSG, right?)

So I took many months of research a few years ago, with huge help from this site, to develop my copedent. Besides flipping the ABC pedals to CBA a la Hughey and Day, I did something very unusual: I removed the C# pull from my "C" pedal, which for me is pedal #1.

I did this partly because I was taught in music theory to avoid parallel 4ths and 5ths, so this parallel 4th movement being locked into a pedal bugged me. I realize I've removed one of the minor inversions (B&C pulled yield a minor inversion of F#-A-C#), but I've assigned G# to G on my LKV. I have all major and minor inversions without pedal/KL-hopping so can slide up and down the neck smoothly through all inversions. I can get the same standard BC pull sound by sliding up 2 frets and pulling only LKV. Please see the copedent image below (hopefully it shows up...).

When I pull my BC pedals (1&2 for me) in a standard E grip, I get a juicy harmonic "setup" of F#/A/B that resolves or passes beautifully for me; so far I haven't missed the standard C-pedal pull with the C#. I like being able to pull the F# independently for passing tones, etc.

So: tell me what paths I've (naively) blocked off by departing from the standard C pedal pull: pretty much EVERYONE maintains this pull so I must be missing something! I've kinda fallen in love with my "signature" sound of the BC (P1&2) pull, I use it surprisingly a lot. Never too old to change, tho, if it makes sense ultimately to revert to the standard C pull. BTW I'm working solely E9 at present, not sure I'll survive long enough to dive into 6th tho I love swing!

Thanks SO much for any input, I'm excited to be playing again and this forum is a gold mine since steel players are so rare out here in the Northwest!

[Earnest Bovine]

I removed the C# pull from my "C" pedal, which for me is pedal #1.

Me too but my A pedal is on the left so I can use the right foot to get the traditional BC pedal sound.

I did this partly because I was taught in music theory to avoid parallel 4ths and 5ths,

I would say that composers have not avoided parallel 4ths, especilally in the upper voices with a 3rd below or above. Mashing the C pedal would be OK. (if you like that sort of thing)

[John Goux]

Congrats on getting back.
I have both, the standard (B)C combination, and the G# to G lowers.
Use them both, too.
You can play most of the same traditional parallel minor licks and chords with either.

Advantages of G# to G lower:
The 3/6 lower is easier to visualize for guitar players, because it is on the same fret as your open position major chord. It has a better selection of notes as you descend down across to the lower strings. Makes jazzy chords easier to find, especially with 7ths on String 2 and 9, and 9ths on string 1.
You will find, there are unexpected uses for that 3/6 lower. Such as, in AB, string 6 can go root, maj7, dominant 7th on the same string.

Advantages of trad C pedal:
The BC two minor chord resolves easier to open position, and also the E lower minor, as they are on the same fret. Lotta Buddy Emmons style licks come from that move.
I enjoy the parallel 4th sound of Strings 4-5 moving together. It is an easy lick to play.

You will find they have a bit different tone to them. The raising of 4/5 has a certain energy to it. The lowering of 3/6 is fatter and more relaxed.

Good luck and have fun!
John

[Bob Hoffnar]

You won't be able to play about a zillion standard E9 licks in the original way but you will open up some very interesting options. The minor seconds and major 7ths that are available with your C pedal look very cool to me.

[Ian Rae]

John is right about the tone difference. Instead of the traditional BC F# chord on 4-5-6, you can get the same chord two frets back on 3-4-5 with the Es lowered, but it sounds nothing like as powerful. And the one got by lowering 6 a half step is frankly limp.

I know what Claire means about parallel 4ths, but they do occur in real life. On the other hand, I find the best use of BC is to play scales in 3rds on 3&4 and in 6ths on 4&6, so it makes no difference whether your 5th string is hooked in or not.

[Ian Worley]

You might find it more useful to put the isolated string 4 F# raise on a knee so you can use it together with the A&B pedals, and keep the traditional C pedal too. I have this on the same knee that raise 1 to G# and 2 to E. Very useful in a lot of situations, the F# functions like the "A" pedal with pedals down. I don't end up using the C pedal much, but it's nice to have sometimes (for the aforementioned zillion licks).

You might consider swapping the G#-F# lower of 6 on your RKR for the F# on 4 instead, just for a test drive. I find it much more useful. I don't know how well it will work in relation to the the half-stop on 1, that depends on how you have it setup and how you use it. As you described it, it would be a really long pull. I don't like half-stops, I have it as straight pulls, but that's just me.

[Fred Treece]

I am but a lowly novice with an S10 3x4, but there is a convenient 4-note 13th chord type on strings 7-5-4-3 that I couldn't do without B-C standard and a half step raise on string 7. I suppose there are other ways of getting that voicing on a U12.

With your setup, you can get a very pretty 4-note M9 voicing on 6-5-4-3 (1/2 step lower on 6), which can of course be used like a 13th if you move it a whole step down from the root position. You might even call this voicing a truer 13th because you have the 7th and 9th voices below the 13th (on string 4) and still have the nice upper register root (on string 3). It would be G major 9th or A13 in open position.

Parallel 4ths? They're all over the place. I have exercises in jazz books for practicing them like scales.

[Claire Winter]

Thanks so much for your comments, lotsa points to chew on. I've changed some pulls on my Willy a few times so have no problems experimenting with it mechanically.

I think I'll hook up the C# pull on my "C" pedal and play around with that a while. I need to get more familiar with the "zillion" E9 Emmons licks. And I agree that in music rules are made to be tastefully broken: they taught that in music theory too!

I have no illusions of getting seriously adept at complex chord moves, having started so late in life on this fabulous instrument. I do hear it all in my head, it's just hard to pound the pull combinations with so many strings into my few slowly operating brain cells! For now I'm happy to be able to create simple yet tasty licks that can add SO much to the sound of most any type of music.

[Steve Leal]

I like to get my quick minor by moving up one fret and raising Es to Fs, stepping on A pedal, and lowering Bs to Bb. It’s a nice quick movement that esentially replaces the need to shift feet over to BC. It’s nice when in the AB position as 1 chord to move up a fret with the combo to get your quick 6 minor chord. I use this all of the time, hence why I drop my Bs on a knee lever as you do. Maybe this move will eliminate the need for you to drop your 3 and 6 a half tone. Since you are already set up to drop 6 a whole tone, you can combine with your B pedal to get that same half step drop on 6.

[Len Amaral]

Clair, you have the three G# to G on a vertical. Is that a bit stiff to engage on a vertical? If so, try backing out the hex nut on the10th string and just use that change on strings 3 & 6. I did this to one of my 12 string guitars and it made that change easier and I didn’t miss it on the 10th string.

[Claire Winter]

Thanks Steve and Len! I've printed out all these great posts so I can experiment with your ideas. Moving the G#s to Gs on the LKV fortunately doesn't require a lot of pressure, so it's okay in that regard. The hardest part was learning to point my left toe as I raised my knee so that I could keep it close by for quick pedal use.

Thanks again, all!