10 string universal

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 4 Sep 2017 12:56 pm

What would you think about a 10 string universal that was the same basic set-up that Jeff Newman proposed many years ago minus the bottom two strings? Obviously this would not be for someone wanting to play a lot of C6th style. But then a 12 string universal is also a compromise. I suppose it's just a matter of how much to compromise.

Recently it occurred to me that on the two or three songs per gig where I actually play C6h, I almost never touch those bottom two strings. I can throw out a bit of swing flavor using a ten string universal tuning and no one in the audience will know the difference.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 4 Sep 2017 1:47 pm

There has been some recent discussion right here, and you can see b0b's 10-string version here, but if we stick with traditional B6/E9 thinking for now, I agree with Paul that when playing with a band the bottom two strings of the 12 are pretty redundant. Adding a couple of extra changes to an E9 would give most of the C6 flavour.

You would need to lower 7 a half step, which is not a normal change, and get used to living without a 9th-string D. I lower 8 a further half step and raise 9 (which is now a B) up to D as well, to give a choice.

I don't think I would ever set out to build such a beast, as I already have my 12-string; but if I came across a project guitar I might fix it up that way.

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 4 Sep 2017 5:20 pm

Here's a 10 string Universal tuning that looks good.
https://b0b.com/tunings/kappen.htm

Tony

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 4 Sep 2017 5:48 pm

The Kappen tuning is very similar to what I have in mind. I had not thought of tuning the 10th string to A and then lowering to G# at the same time the Es are lowered. Thanks for posting this.

I am thinking about using a lever lock, which would reduce the number of floor pedals needed to just six. The locations of things would be a bit different, but it's all the same changes.

Henry Brooks · Post by **Henry Brooks** » 5 Sep 2017 2:33 pm

IMHO a 10 string version of universal isn't worth all the trouble it would take to change the guitar. On a standard 10 string E9th there's a equivalent of having the low G# three frets down from the E's lowered 6th chord using the B pedal and strings 6,7,9,10. The limitation is that D is the lowest key. It's also possible to find other C6th voicing using the standard E9th pedals and levers at this down three frets down position. Of course you can't play all the C6th lower chords but on the other hand there are many that you can. The E9th's 10th string is C6th's 7th string only it's a B6th.
Henry

Larry Allen · Post by **Larry Allen** » 5 Sep 2017 4:23 pm

This 10 Ext. E9 and these copeds can get any chords, I've been using it for 20 years in various bands/productions, fun tuning!

Larry

Lyle Dent · Post by **Lyle Dent** » 7 Sep 2017 2:22 am

Paul, just put Zane Beck's tuning on 10 strings and you have it.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 7 Sep 2017 10:40 am

I have a Sho-Bud Pro-1 S10U with 7x5.
It is the Jeff Newman setup minus strings 11 and 12.
Bass players delight (no overlapping low notes coming from Steel player during gigs).

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 7 Sep 2017 11:05 am

So Peter, do you miss those bottom two strings? Good to hear from someone that has actually tried it. I don't think I would really miss them much.

I know there are other universal tunings. I am inclined to stick with a variation of the Jeff Newman setup because I'm familiar with the standard C6th setup.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 7 Sep 2017 11:45 am

Those bottom two strings are not in the "Bread & Butter" zone of my 6th playing on gigs.
I like the Choo-Choo-Cha-Boogie Swing type 6th playing zone, and that is intact on S10U.
I know some Boo-Wha pedal licks and use some on gigs on my S12U steels, but they are not really needed on the weekend warrior bandstands I play, other than 18-Wheeler horn licks which are fun.

Harry Williams · Post by **Harry Williams** » 7 Sep 2017 2:17 pm

With regard to those lower strings - you can grab some great power chords on them - just right for rock or blues. On a U12 straight up you get a real nice low E arpeggio with a B in the bass, and in C6 you have a F with a C in the bass.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 7 Sep 2017 2:22 pm

Considering most western swing steel guitar was layed down with a six or eight string I also feel the same way you do, I have played quite a lot of western swing on the E9 and although it might not be quite for the purists we are in a situation where portability have to come in. Lowering the ninth string on the E9 can give you lots of great options for strumming chords from 10th string to the 3rd string and get some very amazing and convincing sounds, of course copping the style will help sell it, and that's where I struggle.

Jamie Howze · Post by **Jamie Howze** » 7 Sep 2017 3:42 pm

Mike Sigler uses an experimental 5th pedal to get limited C6 functionality with a 10 string E9.

It is detailed in this thread:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=242592.
It is minimalist but may offer what you need.