Speedy style "machine gun" effect- how??

Lynn Kasdorf · Post by **Lynn Kasdorf** » 11 Oct 2001 6:49 am

Can anybody give me any hints on doing that rapid machine gun effect that runs up the neck? It sounds like the bar is bouncing rapidly. It was one of Speedy West's signature moves. It seems to be in the arsenal of several non-pedal players, especially in the 50's.

I think that it is done by rapidly whacking the top of your bar hand with your pick hand. But when I do this, the bar doesn't bounce. Maybe I need a really light bar??

There is also an excellent example of it on "Buddie's Boogie" (i think that is the name) that Emmons recorded when he was 16 or so. (grrr...how can he be so darn good at that age??)

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 11 Oct 2001 9:17 am

Speedy's trick was to grasp the bar FIRMLY with his left hand, THUMB and RING FINGER and also top of the bar fingers..... then litterally bouncing the bar up the strings as far as he wanted to go.

Many of the pro's of yester-year, used inovations of this type.....bar hand techniques that many of the newer players attaempt to find by way of some electronic gadget.

I commend you for looking beyond.....and attempting to find the "answers". It's kinda like going on an archelogical dig....or somegthing like that. DISCOVERY!

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 11 Oct 2001 9:20 am

Speedy also used his TONE CONTROL for a lot of related type affects! Listen closely and ye shall hear!

Lynn Kasdorf · Post by **Lynn Kasdorf** » 11 Oct 2001 9:53 am

Are you saying that he gripped the back end of the bar with thumb and ring finger and pivoted it from the back? So the front of the bar went up and down?

Or, did the entire bar go up and down? Was the right hand involved?

Boy this stuff is hard to describe with words!

I also assume that a fairly light bar is required for this, no?

I could add a momentary tone control push button to do this, as has been discussed here before, but I'd like to be able to do it with just bar technique.

Thanks

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 11 Oct 2001 10:20 am

The whole bar bounces.It can be done with any bar.The trick is to hold on tight and use the strings as a sort of "trampoline" to gain a little spring and do rest with your hand.There's also muting involved so as to seperate the individual bounces for the stacatto effect.Oh yeah - and don't drop the bar.... If you still can't hack it,you could always put an on/off switch on your guitar and just gliss up the strings while you push the button - either way,when you finally master this trick,you'll be amazed at how much you don't use it. My advice: use that time to practice your slants. -MJ-

Lynn Kasdorf · Post by **Lynn Kasdorf** » 11 Oct 2001 11:41 am

Actually, I play in a Western swing band, and I can see it being very useful on some of the more wacky, up tunes.

Like any gimmick, I'm sure it can be easily overused...

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 11 Oct 2001 1:03 pm

I was thinking the switch MJ reffered to was a momenetary push button type switch. When pressed, it shorted out the tone control and if you chattered the switch rather fast, it gave a stacatto effect. Maybe Jody Carver will drop in here and tell us how it was done because I know he used it very effectively and I think him and Speedy were good pals.

Regards, Paul

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 11 Oct 2001 3:13 pm

Lynn, I used to do that on a break in one of the tunes and I found that if I did a quick switch and bounced the bar with my right hand
while I muted the strings with my left hand, it worked really well. Also, on those occasions when the 'hand off' didn't go well, if I loudly stated an expletive, it would get a positive responce from the audience.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 11 Oct 2001 5:06 pm

This is getting a lot off, but if anyone's seen old footage of Led Zeppelin playing the song 'Dazed & Confused,' Jimmy Page used the violin bow in a similar way whilst chording with his left hand, it gave a far different sound to simply strumming, for dramtic effects he scraped the bow, while for volume he simply used a volume pedal to accentuate the percussive effect.
In later years he added more delay effects and also used a Theremin as part of the piece, but in the late 1960s it was simply the percussive 'bounce' and a volume pedal.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 12 Oct 2001 12:45 pm

Alvino Rey did that in 1938 , I used to do it as I usually copied everything he did.

We could slap that bar down and go down the Frets and hit every one right in tune.

We did have a smaller bar.Then while slapping the bar down and up, we hit the tone contral and got a syncopated Doo-wah,.

Just like a brass section in a big band. It was great stuff in those days and the public really were excited about it.

Back in those times besides hawaiian music, we tried to sound like a brass section or a sax section. For fills and background.

I had a double neck Vega, with E6 on the bottom neck and E13th on the top neck.

Speedy West came along later after WWII and really made it very popular.

By then I sold my double neck Vega and bought my Gibson Electra-Harp , 6 pedals , 8 strings. I still tuned to E6 but pushed a pedal to get the E13th, and lots more.

I always wondered why the players don't do that anymore. Glad to see someone asking about it.......al

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 12 October 2001 at 01:58 PM.]</p></FONT>

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 23 Oct 2001 11:40 am

I think Jody did it (the bar crashing up the neck) the way Speedy did... sheer force of will and bar control... I don't think momentary switches were in his arsenal...

tone/volume pedals, yes...