Why Push-Pull ???

Kevin Raymer · Post by **Kevin Raymer** » 8 Apr 2005 9:34 am

Well,

After such a comprehensive converstation around "Who" made push pulls, I thought I'd ask for your input on "Why" push pulls.

A buddy of mine declares he's a "push-pull" player. When I ask him "Why" he simply answers "It's the tone, man"..

Do you guys agree ???

Anybody have any input into why Emmons guitars have "That Tone" ??

I'm an engineer. I'd like to understand a little about the physics of this effect..

Why does ShoBud seem to fall into a similiar catagory ??

Any takers ??

Kevin

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 8 Apr 2005 9:54 am

This has been discussed a lot, but, from the "world according to chas", contributing to the tone "enhancement" is, the push-pull has 2 long, thin, aluminum fingers that extend below the changer for each string and a minimum of stuff attached to them to damp them, so they can vibrate along with the string.

I have a couple of Emmons guitars, a cut-tail and a wraparound and they record really well, but my favorite is a modified Sho-Bud Professional, Again, the "bird cage" changer has aluminum fingers with an assembly of springs. Normally, plates under tension don't resonate as well as "free" plates. Here, the springs seem to help and since it's a single raise/single lower, there is a minimum of stuff attached to each finger. Adding to this, the Sho-Bud changer axle is captured by the housing between each finger so vibration from the string can get back and forth to the body easier. The Sho-Bud axle is .312, lighter and easier to move than a heavier axle. (the Bigsby guitar axles are .250 and the fingers were, again, long, aluminum and thin with a minimum of stuff attached.)[This message was edited by chas smith on 08 April 2005 at 11:10 AM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 8 Apr 2005 10:12 am

Why push pull? Several advantages, and a couple of disadvantages. Tone is an advantage, because the fingers are both pulled up against the body, completeing a "feedback" loop.
Raise cancels lower, advantage to some, not to others.
One advantage is that the stops are at the changer, not at the front of the guitar like a All Pull. Hence temperature makes very little difference to the tuning on a P-P guitar. It doesn't matter if the pull and push rods expand or not, the changer always goes to the same place. With a all pull, the colder the rod is, the shorter it is and the farther it will pull the string sharp,, the warmer the rod, the less it pulls the changer, so the pedals are flat.
There are several other advantages to the P-P that I don't have time or room to go into here and now.
The big advantage of the All Pull is that non-gear head players can understand them easier.

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 8 Apr 2005 7:18 pm

Listen to Dickey Overbey play his P/P Emmons and you will agree there is tone to the bone!

Seriously, check him out - you will hear what I mean.

Thanks

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 9 Apr 2005 4:01 am

I'd like to share my experience a couple of weeks after I added a ´75 push-pull to my "collection", comparing it to my all-pull Legrande II. Both are mica D10s with Emmons single-coils and relatively fresh nickel strings.

- the Legrande has a bigger, crisper unamplified tone with better string separation, but....
- through an amp, the push-pull sounds a little fatter and a little more focused!
- the push-pull tone becomes much bigger when a pedal is activated, no difference on the all-pull.
- the push-pull has noticeably more sustain, especially up in "Hughey-land".
- the push-pull pedals are stiffer, a bit like on/off switches, making it difficult to depress the A pedal halfway with precision - but that might just be me being used to lighter pedals.
- after watching Bobbe's push/pull maintenance video, it doesn't seem as complicated to work on as some say. Mine was set up the way I like it and in good working order, so I won't have to try any major surgery. I think I'll pass on adding a vertical knee lever, though.

Just my proverbial two cents...

(edited for typing mishaps)
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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ´76 Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Peavey Nashville 1000[This message was edited by Per Berner on 09 April 2005 at 05:04 AM.][This message was edited by Per Berner on 09 April 2005 at 05:05 AM.]

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 9 Apr 2005 4:11 am

you may not see the power and tone of the push pull until you set it up on stage in the club.Once you step on the volume pedal and get the band going you will see what I`m talking about.

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 9 Apr 2005 4:47 am

One advantage is that the stops are at the changer, not at the front of the guitar like a All Pull.

Actually, both the Multi Kord and the Fender pedal steels (which could also be classified as "all pull") had the same idea.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 9 Apr 2005 6:05 am

The P/P guitars do have certain sounds that some others don't. I think it depends on condition of the guitar. But my main thing is I believe a lot of tone comes from the right hand. Some players will sound good on any brand guitar. Personally I usually forget what brand or type guitar I'm playing once I start pickin'. As long as it stays in tune and is easy to play. Since 71 I've had close to 30 different guitars. In closing, the old P/P guitars are special and do have that sound if a person knows what to listen for. Thanks!

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 9 Apr 2005 6:06 am

I never had problem "half-peddling" the A pedal on my Push Pulls, and I also use the fast-action Carters.

It's all in the setup. It worthwile to pay someone with experience in setting up 100s+ of Push Pulls.

I understand how to do it, but couldn't get the results Al Brisco did on my guitars.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 9 Apr 2005 9:22 am

Donny, so does ZB, but these use a totally different system of stopping the changer, they don't use the body, which is necessary for tone.
Bobbe