Fessenden Six Shooter question with C6

Larry Haas · Post by **Larry Haas** » 21 Jan 2017 4:21 am

I have a Fessenden Six Shooter that I would like to set up with C6 tuning and would like to know what strings to control with the 2 pedals. I am not very familiar with C6 but it sounds like it would be fun to play with this steel.
Anyone tried this on a 6 string setup with 2 pedals???

Larry

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 21 Jan 2017 4:37 am

Assuming CEGACE, I'd drop 4 with P1, and P2 would raise 1 and drop 5. All changes a half step.. These are P5 and P6 of the standard C6th

Larry Haas · Post by **Larry Haas** » 21 Jan 2017 4:43 am

Lane Gray wrote:Assuming CEGACE, I'd drop 4 with P1, and P2 would raise 1 and drop 5. All changes a half step.. These are P5 and P6 of the standard C6th

Thanks Lane for the info. Only problem is they only raise the strings and the changer doesn't have a setup to lower any. Any other way????

Thanks
Larry

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 21 Jan 2017 5:14 am

I'd rig a reverser array like on a Sho-Bud Permanent before I'd try to think of a raise-only C6th arrangement.
Tje only useful raises I see would be the Cs and the A, but they're far lower on the list of things I'd put on a C6th guitar.
Wait! If you're handy with corner slants, use your left hand for P5 and P6, and put P7 on the floor, raising 2 and 3 a whole tone. Perhaps raise 6 a half tone with the other pedal

Larry Haas · Post by **Larry Haas** » 21 Jan 2017 5:26 am

Lane Gray wrote:I'd rig a reverser array like on a Sho-Bud Permanent before I'd try to think of a raise-only C6th arrangement.
Tje only useful raises I see would be the Cs and the A, but they're far lower on the list of things I'd put on a C6th guitar.
Wait! If you're handy with corner slants, use your left hand for P5 and P6, and put P7 on the floor, raising 2 and 3 a whole tone. Perhaps raise 6 a half tone with the other pedal

Thanks Lane
I'll try that. Looks like C6 might not be the tuning I need to put on it. It has E on it now and I have used GBDGBD before but just wanted to try C6.
I am use to slanting the bar on my lap steel and maybe your way would work ok with that.
Going to be fun playing with a new tuning if I can get it to do what I want it to do. I have plenty of time to arrange and adjust.
I love the sound of someone playing good hawaiian sounds

Thanks again
Larry

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 21 Jan 2017 5:50 am

I have, somewhere, pictures of the Permanent (circa 1963) reverser assembly. Its elegance impressed me.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 21 Jan 2017 6:09 am

Larry Haas wrote:I love the sound of someone playing good hawaiian sounds

Well, you don't need any pedals for that. What is drawing you to a pedal guitar, then? The answer to that might help steer the answer to your copedent question...

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 21 Jan 2017 7:42 am

In the thread concerning upgrading a 1st generation Sho-Bud Maverick, I was of the opinion that doing so ISN'T a Fool's Errand. But in the case of the Fessenden Six-Shooter, I feel that it was designed to be what it is, something for a non-steel playing guitarist to access the I-IV change and little else.

But you should talk to Jerry Fessenden and get his opinion on modifying the instrument somewhat.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 21 Jan 2017 8:58 am

IF the changer allows you to select the fingers to use and you can move the bell cranks on the shafts, tuning the guitar CEGACE, low to high, you could set the linkage to operate on the E and G strings.

Tune the basic tuning above with both pedals down, and release them to achieve the standard C6 lowered tones...just the reverse use of the pedals.

That would give you these standard 10 string changes:

Lowering string 5, G to F#, lowering string 6, E's to Eb and lowering them both together for the diminished sound.

Use a pinky to pull the top E to F with the middle E to Eb lower change.

Slide the bar up 2 frets for the normal pedal 7 change.

You could do a lot with those changes, even if you have to omit strings in certain positions.

I'd have to give it some thought and put my hands on it to actually try different combinations of the basic notes involved, but I think that's what I would try if I were attempting to get C6 pedals out of a 6 string 2 pedal raise only guitar...or some variation of that out of the basic C6 note group.

That way, you would prevent deconstruction or modification of the guitar and it can be easily returned to original configuration without blemishes.

I agree with Herb though, check with Jerry first. He may have been through such a thing before.

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 21 Jan 2017 9:18 am

When I got my 6 shooter, I was much more familiar with A6 than any other tuning (still am).

I was interested in getting a few basic E9 sounds out of it so what I did was tune it to (high to low) E B G# F# E B

I put the normal A&B pedal changes on it (raise B's a tone and G# a half tone) which meant I had my familiar A6 tuning (E C# A F# E C#) with both pedals down and actually spent about 75% of the time playing in that position, using the pedals for a few more E9 style licks. Pedals down was my default position.

If you wanted to go for a more swing/jazz sound then, following Lane's example, if you wanted to lower the G a semitone, you could actually tune that string to F# and raise it a semitone and consider that pedal down to be your "default" position. Of course, raising one string and lowering another isn't going to be possible but you might be able to find something else that works.

With only 2 pedals, it shouldn't be too hard to remember what's going on.

Larry Haas · Post by **Larry Haas** » 21 Jan 2017 12:38 pm

Thanks fellows for the info. I am going to play with it with different tunings and find out which I like best. Changing the setup underside is no problem. It is very simple setup. I do have a 10 string old Rus-ler that I am restoring and it will still be setup with E9th tuning so have been thinking about the six shooter working another tuning. If I come up with a tuning that works for how I want to play it, I'll post about that.
Keeping the pedals down is maybe a way to go since I think kinda backwards anyway.

Thanks
Larry

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 21 Jan 2017 12:49 pm

Larry, if it helps, it is possible to add either a 3rd pedal or a knee lever to the 6 shooter (or both, I guess but on a single raise guitar it might be hard to find enough changes to justify both).

I added a RKL lever to mine which was the easiest mechanically to do and it works great.

Larry Haas · Post by **Larry Haas** » 21 Jan 2017 1:34 pm

Jim Cohen wrote:
Larry Haas wrote:I love the sound of someone playing good hawaiian sounds
Well, you don't need any pedals for that. What is drawing you to a pedal guitar, then? The answer to that might help steer the answer to your copedent question...

Hey Jim
I just thought since a 10 string for c6 has so many pedals that I could maybe use just 2 for a couple of raises on a 6 string. Maybe not but it will be fun to try and play with something different. I wouldn't actually need to use any pedals and just slant the bar but sounds like fun trying something new and different.

Thanks
Larry

Larry Haas · Post by **Larry Haas** » 21 Jan 2017 1:38 pm

Jeff Mead wrote:Larry, if it helps, it is possible to add either a 3rd pedal or a knee lever to the 6 shooter (or both, I guess but on a single raise guitar it might be hard to find enough changes to justify both).

I added a RKL lever to mine which was the easiest mechanically to do and it works great.

Hey Jeff
If you added the knee lever, Unless you did something to the changer, It would only raise a string. Did you do something to get it to lower any????

Thanks
Larry

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 21 Jan 2017 2:02 pm

Larry Haas wrote:
Hey Jeff
If you added the knee lever, Unless you did something to the changer, It would only raise a string. Did you do something to get it to lower any????

Thanks
Larry

No, it's another raise - that's why I said that there probably wouldn't be much point in adding both a lever and a pedal since you'd run out of strings to raise.

At the moment, I have it tuned to strings 3-8 of an E9 pedal steel with A&B pedals plus the lever raising the E's to F.

RKL meant I could add it near the the changer, keeping the pull short and where there was plenty of room to mount it. Having it move to the left meant it was directly pulling the changer finger with no need for a reverser or anything. I guess you could rig up a lever to lower a string with a spring to keep it raised by default and the lever working against the spring (moving to the right) to lower it. I think it would get complicated to try and raise and lower the same string and, at that point, it would probably be worth either getting a new changer or just buying a 10 stringer!

But, the E raise worked for me as I find it to be a very useful change and would probably have it instead of the lower anyway. Of course, as I was already raising the B and G# strings, all I had left were the Es or the F# so it didn't take too long to decide.

Rich Gibson · Post by **Rich Gibson** » 22 Jan 2017 12:39 pm

This is an interesting little puzzle.I've been mulling this over and would offer the following.
Open tuning in C6
Pedal 2 raise A to Bb for the 7 th chord.
Pedal 1 raise C's to D and E's to F for a Bb 6 th tuning(both pedals down) with the 5th on top.
It may seem redundant to have 2 tunings so close together but you get the 5th on top option and there's some cool moves between the 2.Plus with the pedal 1 change you get another minor triad/maj6th and some E9 B pedal moves.
Another option would be open C6th and raising the C's to C# for a C6/A7 option although I haven't come up for a good use for the other pedal on that one.i guess you could stay with the A to Bb on the other pedal for another 7th chord position plus a 7b9/dim7th with both down....
Anyway lots of good ideas here just wanted to throw these out there.

Larry Haas · Post by **Larry Haas** » 23 Jan 2017 3:54 am

Well I have set it up to ECAGEC high to low and have set the pedals to raise. High E to F, A to A# on the pedal 2. High C to C# and Low C to D on pedal 1.
I don't know what this ends up being since I don't know music theory but so far I can play with that some of the songs I enjoy playing. Makes slanting the bar a lot less but I find I will try to slant it and catch myself doing it from habit.
Don't know if this is what I will stay with but I did try some others that was suggested and I can't play with the pedals down all the time and let up one or both for the lowers. I found myself thinking about holding them down and not thinking about the song.
Then again I just might go back to original tuning and play the lap steel for the c6 tuning.
Thanks for all that have suggested what to set up.

Larry

Larry Haas · Post by **Larry Haas** » 23 Jan 2017 7:42 am

I have changed tuning to C6---GECAGE and like it very much so far. Haven't worked on the pedals but going to play around with some raises. Its easy to adjust these with a easy setup for raises.
I have tried a couple of songs and it will take a little getting used to where is what but it feels good with what I have tried so far.

Larry