6/8 or 3/4 timing

Brendan Mitchell · Post by **Brendan Mitchell** » 13 Jan 2017 4:41 am

Is there a difference or is one the same as the other ?

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 13 Jan 2017 5:39 am

It's basically the same thing Brandan. 6/8 Allows for more room on a printed page of music. It's got half the number of the notes written out in a given measure. Easier to read. If I've got this backwards, someone please correct me.

Jonah Turner · Post by **Jonah Turner** » 13 Jan 2017 7:24 am

The biggest difference is their feel. In 6/8 beats one and four are accented (like a waltz feel, sometimes even counted in two) while in 3/4 the accent is usually on beat one and it feels more like a measure of three than a measure of two "triplets" like 6/8.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 13 Jan 2017 7:46 am

Jonah Turner wrote:The biggest difference is their feel. In 6/8 beats one and four are accented (like a waltz feel, sometimes even counted in two) while in 3/4 the accent is usually on beat one and it feels more like a measure of three than a measure of two "triplets" like 6/8.

6/8 = 1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4 and a 5 and a 6 and a

3/4 = 1 and 2 and 3 and

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 13 Jan 2017 8:44 am

6/8 - six beats to the measure and an 8th note gets one beat.

3/4 - three beats to the measure and a quarter note gets one beat.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Jan 2017 11:28 am

Erv Niehaus wrote:6/8 - six beats to the measure and an 8th note gets one beat.

3/4 - three beats to the measure and a quarter note gets one beat.

Yes, but that just looks like a semantic difference only.
This is more than just semantics, there's a difference in feel between the two, but I always get them muddled.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 13 Jan 2017 11:53 am

I think 6/8 is classified as a "compound time", in this case a two-beat feel with the beats subdivided by three.

3/4 and 6/8 really have nothing to do with each other, except maybe in Spanish music where the mathematical relation is exploited. I am working on a band arrangement of a fandango which moves seamlessly between the two - in fact I just looked again at the score and the composer (Manuel de Falla) writes the time signature as "3/4=6/8" - so there you are, Brendan, they are the same! (but only if you're Spanish)

Here it is played by my computer:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwfziyh53a4lbvh/TRE.mp3?dl=0

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 13 Jan 2017 1:35 pm

When I whip up some backup tracks in BIAB, if the song is written in 6/8, I just divide that into two 3/4 measures and go my jolly way.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 13 Jan 2017 1:48 pm

Yes, Erv, if no-one's ever going to see it written, it doesn't matter. You could use 3/4, 3/8, 3/2 - even 12/8 - anything that divides by three, in fact.

But to musicians who perform from notation these all convey different things.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Jan 2017 1:56 pm

Or even those who are just trained in Standard Notation.. There's a difference between 2/4 and 4/4 too.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 13 Jan 2017 3:21 pm

I have been caught out on sight-reading gigs* by copyists who muddle 4/4 and 2/2, which although they look the same at a glance, have drastically different meanings

*not on pedal steel, I should add

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 13 Jan 2017 4:32 pm

Deleted

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Jan 2017 4:55 pm

So which is this. I suspect you'd transcribe it in 6
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ5jfhp-uoM

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 13 Jan 2017 5:19 pm

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 13 Jan 2017 5:30 pm

You are ALL wrong and muddying the poor OP's question.
One whole note is one whole note. It has NOTHING to do with feel. Play it any way you like. Put the accent anywhere you like. Thats up to you and thats fine. This is a classic case of over analyzing something to death.
3/4 time has 3, I repeat three beats per measure on the written page.
6/8 time has 6 beats per measure on the written page.
How fast or slow or where you choose to put the accents, thats up to you.
It's as simple as that.
10 years of community college, I should know.

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 13 Jan 2017 5:32 pm

Deleted

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 13 Jan 2017 5:47 pm

Wow!!! Forget I even mentioned anything. It's all yours Bud.

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 13 Jan 2017 5:49 pm

Deleted

Rich Sullivan · Post by **Rich Sullivan** » 13 Jan 2017 5:52 pm

My 2 cents. 6/8 is a compound of 2/4 (not 3/4.) You would tap your foot twice per measure, and each time you tap your foot, three sub-beats (felt as triplets) have gone by. If you see notation for 6/8, it is always shown as two sets of three eighth notes, not three sets of two eighth notes.

Lane - I think Paradise is in 6/8. But I guess if you drink enough coffee, you could tap your foot in 3/4. Another classic example of 6/8 would be a jig such as Irish Washerwoman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFBRaIOI85k

12/8 can be counted as 6/8, but it is used for a 4/4 feel with triplets. Many of Fats Domino's songs are 12/8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQQCPrwKzdo
Listen to the cymbal for the eighth notes, and you will feel the four beats divided into triplets. Another good example of a slow 12/8 is the Beatles' "Oh Darling."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3bmdBdFIWo

3/4 is always felt as 3 beats to the measure. 3/4 is not always a waltz, but if you think waltz you won't go wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srdSXqXTamo
And since I linked Tennessee Waltz, I need to add that you can't always let the song name on the recording be a guide. Sam Cooke recorded Tennessee Waltz in 4/4. I guess he didn't know what a waltz is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKhWCSw4_m4

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Jan 2017 6:17 pm

Paradise ain't that old. John Prine wrote it....
Most versions are slower and with a less "aggressive" beat.
The Country Gentlemen did it in 2

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Jan 2017 7:03 pm

Rich, "the Tennessee Waltz" doesn't have to be in Waltz Time, because if you listen to the lyrics, the song is ABOUT "the beautiful Tennessee Waltz."

Tell me if this is the proper understanding, as it's basically the one I have, but rhythmic notation and concepts are my weak point (I can play the groove and hang with the groove, but I can't discuss it adequately) : if you hear 1Â²Â³2Â²Â³, it's probably 6/8, and 3/4 strikes the ear as Â¹23Â²23

In another post in the Music section, I posted my admiration for the folks with Strictly Come Dancing (the BBC TV show, which was exported under the name Dancing With the Stars). They took I Will Always Love You and made it a waltz, I suspect they turned 4/4 into 12/8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vuX9V0oKVdI

Jonathan Lam · Post by **Jonathan Lam** » 13 Jan 2017 7:40 pm

Bud Angelotti wrote:You are ALL wrong and muddying the poor OP's question.
One whole note is one whole note. It has NOTHING to do with feel. Play it any way you like. Put the accent anywhere you like. Thats up to you and thats fine. This is a classic case of over analyzing something to death.
3/4 time has 3, I repeat three beats per measure on the written page.
6/8 time has 6 beats per measure on the written page.
How fast or slow or where you choose to put the accents, thats up to you.
It's as simple as that.
10 years of community college, I should know.

This is not a classic case of over analyzation, the poster asked if they are different or same.
They are different.
Your simplification, does not answer the question. In your opinion they do the same thing, and thats totally fine, but in terms of how they differ, Lane and Ian have addressed the actual question.
If a composer wants 3/4 he asks fr 3/4 if they want 6/8 they ask for 6/8. compound and simple meters, especially when using them in groups for odd meter stuff, is VERY helpful for navigating difficult passages.
Notation, while at times SEEMS redundant, lets not forget that its for communicating as much information, in context, to the intent of the composer. Thats pretty dang important!

admin · Post by **b0b** » 13 Jan 2017 7:45 pm

When talking to a country drummer, it's best to think of it like this:

6/8 is stressed on the 1st and 4th beat, like Sleepwalk. The drummer will probably play 8th notes on his high hat.

3/4 is on the first beat only, like I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry. The drummer will probably click the quarter notes on the rim of his snare.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Jan 2017 7:48 pm

Bill, I wish you hadn't deleted those.
They were helping my understanding of my weakest aspect of music. Even if someone took issue with your words, they were actually pretty good words, and I was hoping to come back to them.

steve takacs · Post by **steve takacs** » 14 Jan 2017 4:16 am

Yes, Bill, I agree with Lane. If it is not too much trouble, would you re-post your deletions, please? You always have something worthwhile to contribute. Thanks, Stevet