Which 8 string E13 tuning?

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 19 Dec 2016 3:22 am

Paul Seager wrote:
Stefan Robertson wrote:Anyone has any E13 tabs or notation?
Well that's the thing Stefan, it is a much quoted tuning but I've never found a thing to guide me in playing it. You'd think that, as this question comes up so often, someone with the knowledge would write a book on it ... I'd buy it!
...

\ paul

Ok so what I'll do then is publish my notation and tabs once I am ready. I have figured out the Theory of it which is awesome but I only just started getting into chord melody so I have only transcribed parts of songs that I was studying from the Jazz Theory book.

I will be sitting down shortly and doing completes including solos. But transcribing and sometimes transposing takes time.

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 19 Dec 2016 3:25 am

Here is a little taster of the opening to Autumn leaves.

in G Major for 12 string E13b9 (Stefan's Bebop Tuning)

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 19 Dec 2016 2:12 pm

I met Leon McAuliffe a couple of times at a local dance hall when I was 14 and just beginning to play out at some 'nicer dives' in the area. He wrote out the tunings he had on the 4-neck: A6 bass tuning outside neck (octave lower than next inside A6th neck. E13th on next inside neck, inside neck was his 'experimental tunings' he never played it during the dances - it was mainly jibberish. Leon would re-tune a string or two on the A 6th and the E 13th to play special songs then tune back. On E13th he did use the low E, but the 7th string would keep as G#, but did tune it up to B for some.

There was many E tunings then (we all had versions of it so we make the 'weird chords'.) When Curly Chaulker would to come to town, during the band break, he would cover his steel with a big towel, so we local musicians would NOT touch his guitar and maybe learn his 'special tuning'. He was playing a two neck Fender (no pedals) then.

All of us 'experimented' with tunings as all of you should - it's your guitar and your notes to create your own music.

Thanx,
Jim

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 20 Dec 2016 1:25 am

Jim Bates wrote:I met Leon McAuliffe a couple of times at a local dance hall when I was 14 and just beginning to play out at some 'nicer dives' in the area. He wrote out the tunings he had on the 4-neck: A6 bass tuning outside neck...

Thanx,
Jim

Awesome story Jim. As a young guy myself I wish someone wrote a book with all these awesome encounters of the legends and their practices so that their is some historical record plus their tunings, ideas, approaches, inventions, weird practices, Gigging advice, challenges they faced... etc.

Such a shame to lose all this amazing information as their generations pass away.

Can anyone write something like this?

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 22 Dec 2016 7:16 am

I use McAuliffe's tuning, except that the lower 3 strings are high to low: E, D, B. I went back and forth between the 8th string E and the 6th, but it just seems a lot more versatile with the E and D together. The 8th string E seemed to get lost in the band mix for me.

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 22 Dec 2016 8:32 am

Webb Kline wrote:I use McAuliffe's tuning, except that the lower 3 strings are high to low: E, D, B. I went back and forth between the 8th string E and the 6th, but it just seems a lot more versatile with the E and D together. The 8th string E seemed to get lost in the band mix for me.

definitely. I agree. that Low E isn't all that necessary plus if its placed higher it can be used to give you those lovely voicings with the Root or the 3rd on top in the lowish register.

Brennan Mangan · Post by **Brennan Mangan** » 26 Dec 2016 4:37 pm

Stefan Robertson wrote:
Webb Kline wrote:I use McAuliffe's tuning, except that the lower 3 strings are high to low: E, D, B. I went back and forth between the 8th string E and the 6th, but it just seems a lot more versatile with the E and D together. The 8th string E seemed to get lost in the band mix for me.
definitely. I agree. that Low E isn't all that necessary plus if its placed higher it can be used to give you those lovely voicings with the Root or the 3rd on top in the lowish register.

Would either of you mind detailing which string gauges you use? I'm dancing the "which e13" shuffle myself and like the sound of this variation.

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 28 Dec 2016 12:13 am

I use standard E9 pedal steel strings for most of from strings 10 - 1

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 28 Dec 2016 1:40 am

My tuning is standard E9 string 10-1 except for the C# instead of D# giving me a 13th and no strings are out of order.

Essentially C6 positions with the added 9th on the top and bottom and a b7th on the bottom.

Lo - Hi

from strings 10

(B, D, E, F#, G#, b, c#, e, f#, g#) - E13 - 10 string

is really

(G, Bb, C, D, E, g, a, c, d, e) - C13 - 10 string

for anyone wanting to try on a 10 stringer Either will work and now if you didn't know that yes C6 is right in there. (C, E, G, A, C, E)

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 28 Dec 2016 3:02 pm

So cool to see all the E13 talk. I have had to stick with a more vanilla version of it perhaps. Mine is E D F# G# B C# E G#. I do a lot of 50s gigs and need to do Hank stuff. Plus Sleepwalk with that low fat E walk up lick. I do find I have to tune my F# to E when doing chord melody/jazz standard type stuff. F# gets in the way on lots of melody stuff. Just really getting into doing jazz on steel. I feel I am missing a lot without low G# and B and F#. But I need country tuning for gigs. I seem to be able to do a lot with it though. I need to get a 10 string so I can have it all. Right now Consolette and National Special 8 is it. Still lots to work with. I guess I just need to experiment with the other versions some more. I did for a while but kept reaching for high G#. Am too used to it. I have resolved just to use the country version and be happy till I can get a 10 string. My other tuning is A6. Together with E13 really get lots of fun stuff in my country/rockabilly group. Jazz is next frontier for me. Love jazz standards on steel. My vanilla country tuning is actually working well for melody stuff. Will have to dig deeper of course. Lots more to learn. Nice to see E13 talk.

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 28 Dec 2016 3:27 pm

[/quote]
Would either of you mind detailing which string gauges you use? I'm dancing the "which e13" shuffle myself and like the sound of this variation.[/quote]

This is where I've wound up for now and it seems to work pretty good, but style of pickup and its relation to the bridge and the scale length are all factors as well.

I have a 24" scale, Paul Franklin George L (PF1) midstream between the bridge and neck, and the gauges from hi to lo are .14, .16, .18, .24w, .26, .30, .34, 38.

I might even go a tad heavier on the top next time around, but I'm pretty happy with it for swing and jazz. I do some E9 pedal simulation on this neck so I wanted it a bit lighter and the gauges work well for that, but on swing and jazz, I think I'd go to maybe .15, .18, .20 on the top 3.

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 29 Dec 2016 1:21 am

Just buy some standard E9 pedal steel strings and you'll be fine. I use this mainly as an option as I find those strings are tough and give a much brighter cleaner sound.

if not you can use John Ely's string gauge chart here:
http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/graphics/p ... _chart.pdf

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 29 Dec 2016 1:24 am

PS

Using such a bright crisp tone is great but your palm blocking needs to be on point and if you are doing jazz you simply adjust your tone knob to about 4/5/6 to get a more mellow sound.

John Goux · Post by **John Goux** » 3 Jan 2017 11:33 am

I just spent some time time trying these E13(6) tunings.

I have a question for you more experienced lap players.

E G# B D F# G# B E L-H
E G# B D F# G# C# E (Jules)

My first order of business was to find non slant harmonized major scale in thirds and sixths.

It seems to me these E tunings are scarce in thirds. There are plenty of minor thirds between strings, but the major thirds are hard to find.
The sixths seemed to be better.
This is as compared to C6 tunings. It seems the thirds are not as accessible.

How do you harmonize melodies? Are you slanting adjacent strings for major thirds?

John

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 3 Jan 2017 12:31 pm

John Goux wrote:I just spent some time time trying these E13(6) tunings.

I have a question for you more experienced lap players.

E G# B D F# G# B E L-H
E G# B D F# G# C# E (Jules)

My first order of business was to find non slant harmonized major scale in thirds and sixths.

It seems to me these E tunings are scarce in thirds. There are plenty of minor thirds between strings, but the major thirds are hard to find.
The sixths seemed to be better.
This is as compared to C6 tunings. It seems the thirds are not as accessible.

How do you harmonize melodies? Are you slanting adjacent strings for major thirds?

John

E13 has C6 in it.

Take a simple melody like "take me out to the ball game" and its all there with the most full Emmons style voicings.

Play a C ionian (Major Scale) Now try and play the melody notes to take me out to the ball game.

Then add triads to it. I'll post a short clip example. E13 is, for me at least such a deep and more harmonic tuning than C6. It sounds crisp like E9 but without pedals.

I'll need to practice it but I'll post a rough idea using only triads mostly and then throw some full chord strums that you can do.

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 3 Jan 2017 1:49 pm

I'll post it in the main area