Which 8 string E13 tuning?

David M Brown · Post by **David M Brown** » 7 Dec 2016 11:39 am

The Jules Ah See

E G# B D F# G# C# E

or which of the many others?

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/006522.html

mentions Barney Isaacs

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/006645.html

from the esteemed Jeff Au Hoy:

"Here is some interesting backup work done by Joe Custino (deceased 1992) on the F13 tuning (take the C13, drop the high E to a D, G to an F, E to Eb and so forth). Uncle Boyce Rodrigues says that Joe and Jules Ah See were probably of the same tree... that is, they both had a relatively slow vibrato and tended to strum/pick more chords."

Joe's F13 down a half step?

I could go on....

Thanks in advance

Stephen Abruzzo · Post by **Stephen Abruzzo** » 7 Dec 2016 12:56 pm

IIRC, Mike Neer likes this version of E13:
Low-to-hi; E-G#-B-D-F#-G#-B-E

Covers 2 octaves....you can power chord off the 6 and 8 strings....straight Dom 7 on bottom 4 strings....straight 9 chord on top 5 strings...minor chord on strings 4-5-6.

David M Brown · Post by **David M Brown** » 7 Dec 2016 2:04 pm

Stephen Abruzzo wrote:IIRC, Mike Neer likes this version of E13:
Low-to-hi; E-G#-B-D-F#-G#-B-E

Covers 2 octaves....you can power chord off the 6 and 8 strings....straight Dom 7 on bottom 4 strings....straight 9 chord on top 5 strings...minor chord on strings 4-5-6.

That's only one note different from the Ah See tuning, the 2nd string C#. I can see times when I would like either choice.....

which leads to tunings with BOTH the 3rd string B and 2nd string C#.....

but if there is no C#, the 6th/13th, then it's not a 13th chord.

Thanks.

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 7 Dec 2016 6:42 pm

Well, my E13 might be pretty useless to a real non-pedal player, but here it is (low to high):

D E G+ B C+ E G+ F+

It is my "lead" neck. It has a distinct pedal steel feel to the approach. It is like having pedals-up and pedals-down positions on each fret, and the inside-out feel of the high strings. I like it, but it is not "normal" for an 8-string E13.

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 7 Dec 2016 7:12 pm

The E13th version I used for many years before I got into pedal steel:

l-h E B D/C# E/F# G# B C# E (tuned D down to C# when I wanted a good E6th sound. Tuned E to F# for jazzy sounds, Used E for Hawaiian, etc, Did what I felt like doing..)

Got some good boogie and bass licks using the E B D E combo.

Thanx,
Jim

Stephen Abruzzo · Post by **Stephen Abruzzo** » 7 Dec 2016 9:01 pm

David........sorry about that, you are right.

That's Mike's version of E9.

David M Brown · Post by **David M Brown** » 8 Dec 2016 2:48 am

Rick Abbott wrote:Well, my E13 might be pretty useless to a real non-pedal player, but here it is (low to high):

D E G+ B C+ E G+ F+

It is my "lead" neck. It has a distinct pedal steel feel to the approach. It is like having pedals-up and pedals-down positions on each fret, and the inside-out feel of the high strings. I like it, but it is not "normal" for an 8-string E13.

That sounds cool but I can't play those pedal steel re-entrant tunings.

David M Brown · Post by **David M Brown** » 8 Dec 2016 2:50 am

Jim Bates wrote:The E13th version I used for many years before I got into pedal steel:

l-h E B D/C# E/F# G# B C# E (tuned D down to C# when I wanted a good E6th sound. Tuned E to F# for jazzy sounds, Used E for Hawaiian, etc, Did what I felt like doing..)

Got some good boogie and bass licks using the E B D E combo.

Thanx,
Jim

I've used that tuning a bit too, and it's easy to re-tune to the Ah See tuning.

Sometimes having that middle E would be useful for playing octaves with the first string.

Bob Watson · Post by **Bob Watson** » 9 Dec 2016 12:11 am

I think that the Jules Ah See tuning that you posted is the same E13 tuning that Noel Boggs used. I like this tuning because you can go back and fourth between a G6 tuning, E,G,B,D,E,G,B,D ( an A6 tuning a whole step down ) and this E13, E G# B D F# G# C# E, without having to change strings. I use it on the top neck of my D8 Stringmaster, using a C6 on the back neck, which I sometimes tune to C13, tuning the low A to Bb.

David M Brown · Post by **David M Brown** » 9 Dec 2016 1:05 am

Bob Watson wrote:I think that the Jules Ah See tuning that you posted is the same E13 tuning that Noel Boggs used. I like this tuning because you can go back and fourth between a G6 tuning, E,G,B,D,E,G,B,D ( an A6 tuning a whole step down ) and this E13, E G# B D F# G# C# E, without having to change strings..

So far my 8 string cheapie steel guitar has been able to tune to A6 and E13 with no problems, but I appreciate the suggestion - and like G6 a lot!

I've been leaving the 8 string in the E13 so I can get more familiar with it. So far, for jazzy stuff, I've gotten to like having that min6 chord smack in the middle (open strings B D F# G#).

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 9 Dec 2016 4:45 am

You might want to look at these, just as a way to view things. You have to scroll down to get one that actually fits the page better, but there is a good one eventually:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

I just took a 0.015" = E as the arbitrary high string then filled out the rest of the tunings, with the E as the root, 6th, 5th and 3rd of each tuning. That's just a four-note mapping, but it looks like the 13th tunings tend to knock the lowest string off and add one interval back in the middle, a 0.028" or a 0.030" with a 0.032" etc.
You can find blank charts in the links above or just make tables up in your word processing program. For the gauges I used this or some approximation of this:

http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm

You can use a string that's 0.002" light without much problem.

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 9 Dec 2016 5:37 am

Anyone has any E13 tabs or notation?

Bo Parker · Post by **Bo Parker** » 9 Dec 2016 7:35 am

Stefan Robertson wrote:Anyone has any E13 tabs or notation?

I'm working on Night and Day by Cole Porter in McAuliffe E13

low-to-high E G# D F# G# B C# E

but I don't have a tab for it. The first chord is a Dm7b5 with a G melody note. I voice this as xx6x6x6x (Ab D G, which is a fragment of a Dm11b5). Once I got that, the rest fell into place pretty easily.

I wish there was some tutorial material for that tuning out there, because it definitely has some nice nice chords in it.

David M Brown · Post by **David M Brown** » 9 Dec 2016 7:51 am

Bo Parker wrote:
Stefan Robertson wrote:Anyone has any E13 tabs or notation?
McAuliffe E13

low-to-high E G# D F# G# B C# E

A tuning that combined the McAuliffe and the Ah See E13 would be so cool -

I guess you could drop the low G#.....

maybe l-h

E B D F# G# B C# E

I'm sure it's already been thought of.

K Maul · Post by **K Maul** » 10 Dec 2016 9:15 am

E B D F# G# B C# E is what I use on my Stringmaster for Rockabilly and Western swing stuff. I like the sound of B on the 7th string.

David M Brown · Post by **David M Brown** » 10 Dec 2016 10:29 am

K Maul wrote:E B D F# G# B C# E is what I use on my Stringmaster for Rockabilly and Western swing stuff. I like the sound of B on the 7th string.

Like I said, I'm sure somebody has used this tuning.

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 11 Dec 2016 11:38 am

David M Brown wrote:
K Maul wrote:E B D F# G# B C# E is what I use on my Stringmaster for Rockabilly and Western swing stuff. I like the sound of B on the 7th string.
Like I said, I'm sure somebody has used this tuning.

Ditto same notes on mine. Except my e - root is like PSG so after the low B and D

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 11 Dec 2016 1:45 pm

Bo Parker wrote:
Stefan Robertson wrote:Anyone has any E13 tabs or notation?
I'm working on Night and Day by Cole Porter in McAuliffe E13

low-to-high E G# D F# G# B C# E

but I don't have a tab for it. The first chord is a Dm7b5 with a G melody note. I voice this as xx6x6x6x (Ab D G, which is a fragment of a Dm11b5). Once I got that, the rest fell into place pretty easily.

I wish there was some tutorial material for that tuning out there, because it definitely has some nice nice chords in it.

Had a play with it changed it a little but yeah really nice voicings appeared. I added my low D to complete the Dm7b5.

Oh and my first chord is from the outset a CM7 (B, E, G) its on your 3rd fret.
Threw in some diminished chords and some 7b9.

Check it out. Didn't really focus on the melody as much as I was just having a look at chord progressions and positions but had some fun.

https://ilapsteel.wordpress.com/2016/12 ... el-guitar/

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 13 Dec 2016 7:57 pm

I used the 8 string E13th as I showed above, to develop the 10 string version on my Emmons LeGrand that I have used since '69. You can play it as a non-pedal steel or as a pedal steel.

Thanx,
Jim

Butch Pytko · Post by **Butch Pytko** » 14 Dec 2016 12:56 pm

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 15 Dec 2016 3:32 am

If I had a pedal steel I would change that low E to F

so your change gives you more chords.

It would give you m9 a more common 7b9 and a close dimishined voicing

That low E root is not necessary as its hardly ever used. Whereas the G on your RkR gives you a drop 2 inversion of a M7.

Just my two pence

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 16 Dec 2016 7:06 pm

Butch,

Thanks for setting me 'straight'.

Thanx,
Jim

Stefan,
The big E is a major string I use for boogies, Boot Heel Drag, lots of bass fill ins, and full chords. Depends on what you are playing. Use both LKL and RKR to get full dim 7th chords.

I will try your suggestions.
Thanx,
Jim

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 18 Dec 2016 1:28 pm

Definitely more chords. You just need to look.

As for the Boot Heel drag and other change the key so that you will play a semitone up So using an F.

Its definitely worth a checkout.

As Bill Hatcher he uses the Leavitt tuning. And thats what your bottom 6 would be as I do.

Bill Leavitt was a jazz master who wrote many books and taught tons of students Jazz so his reasons for common jazz voicings are probably more than I will ever fully grasp but I'm trying and it is awesome.

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 18 Dec 2016 1:31 pm

Jim Bates wrote:Butch,

Thanks for setting me 'straight'.

Thanx,
Jim

Stefan,
The big E is a major string I use for boogies, Boot Heel Drag, lots of bass fill ins, and full chords. Depends on what you are playing. Use both LKL and RKR to get full dim 7th chords.

I will try your suggestions.
Thanx,
Jim

also if you lever the F to a G you get Full chords in Drop 2 inversions for your Majors and M7 chords plus a really nice m9 voicing. Hmmm Maybe I need 13 strings to get that. Ron @ ram guitars is my next stop. One Day when I get my responsibilities in order. `that would be my ideal amount.

Paul Seager · Post by **Paul Seager** » 19 Dec 2016 1:31 am

Stefan Robertson wrote:Anyone has any E13 tabs or notation?

Well that's the thing Stefan, it is a much quoted tuning but I've never found a thing to guide me in playing it. You'd think that, as this question comes up so often, someone with the knowledge would write a book on it ... I'd buy it!

I have tried playing some Leon songs with it but it just seems easier to use A6 or C6 tuning ... and Leon did have 3 necks most of the time, so I guess it was just used for chord stuff.

I've given up with it and I'm now trying a mixed A and E tuning that came up on another thread. By the time I figure exactly what I want, I will no doubt learn that it is the famous tuning used by [some guy I never heard of]

\ paul