Why Aren't Sho~buds As Good As Emmons?

Tom Callahan · Post by **Tom Callahan** » 4 Feb 2005 9:18 am

Well I just recently purchased a Sho Bud and put a lot of work into it. Been playing on it for almost three days now. Kinda like it so far, Love my Emmons, Really like my Dekley.
Guess it depends on what you are looking for.
The main disadvantage to either would be availability of parts.
But what ever you think best is fine.

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Tom Callahan
Emmons S-10
Nashville 400
Dekley S-12
Sho Bud SD-10

kyle reid · Post by **kyle reid** » 4 Feb 2005 9:45 am

I could give a laundry list of top players that sounded much better on records when playing Sho-Bud before switching to Emmons, Listen to some stuff cut in the 60s & 70s

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 4 Feb 2005 9:49 am

...I'd kinda like to see that list,Kyle...

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 4 Feb 2005 11:26 am

Uh-oh Kyle.

I do enjoy an animated discussion.

It was getting boring around here.

On some jazz gigs I play my Les Paul. Then sometimes I play my big-body Super 400-style Washburn. Is the LP better than the Washburn, or vice versa?? No... they're both great guitars, just different. I swap guitars when the mood dictates, or when my ears (or back) gets tired. Sometimes I take both guitars to the gig.

Thankfully, SB and Emmons have very different sounds, so you don't have to hear the same thing all the time if you don't want to. My Marlens have something of the sound of both Bud and Emmons... best of all possible worlds![This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 04 February 2005 at 11:29 AM.]

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 4 Feb 2005 11:47 am

yes,i'm enjoying this!funny,kindda like getting my two son n laws together.say which is best Ford or Chevy.i don't have to say no more!!!battle is on!!!

I wonder what 20yrs from now will be? i guess collectors will have them! but recon they'll be anygood anymore in music??

very interesting topic to think about!!!
I drove a 49 ford pickup awhile back,pc.of junk!!! also drove a 66 chevy pickup straight 6,no power steering nothing.pc of junk!!!yep they both are big value prices,but not to good to drive.steels mabe be the same way. farris

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 4 Feb 2005 12:06 pm

For all those above who claim to hear a big difference in sound between ShoBuds and Emmons, what is the difference? Darker, brighter, thinner, more sustain, better string separation, what? I think I know what the Emmons sound is, at least for a push-pull (I have one), but I have never associated ShoBuds with any particular sound that is different from other all-pulls.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 4 Feb 2005 12:17 pm

I had bunch a Sho~Buds and Emmons p/p and also many other brands.Sho~Bud and Emmons p/p are both great guitars.My favorite is LDG but Pro I,II and Professional are great sounding machines also.I wouldn`t say one is better than another ,they are different guitars,they look different and they sound diferent but love`em both.

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 4 Feb 2005 1:51 pm

Hey, b0b, you left my smiley-winkey face out when you quoted me!

Actually, you'll get three hits counting the one on this thread: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/004392.html

kyle reid · Post by **kyle reid** » 4 Feb 2005 4:16 pm

Steve! I used all the guts I have to post what I did, Sorry No List!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Feb 2005 4:33 pm

...between ShoBuds and Emmons, what is the difference?

To me, the 'Bud is a little fuller on the bottom, and a little more scooped in the mids. The Emmons sound is a little thinner on the bottom, with little scoop in the mids and a little more highs. Long ago, a player friend of mine put it told me this way, he said 'Buds sound "woody", and the Emmons' sounds "metallic". After listening to BC (with Tubb) and Myrick (with Connie), I was inclined to agree.

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 5 Feb 2005 6:57 am

There seems to be a market for the Sho-Bud sound in Nashville these days, based on the number of sessions that Dan Dugmore plays.

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 5 Feb 2005 8:36 am

Rick McD. I love Dugmore's chops, but the last time I checked there is a cat named Paul--"something or other"-- doing quite a bit of work in the Gnashville studios and he doesn't play either one of the two subject guitars. He's playing one of those old things his Dad makes. Gee, how do we figure that out?

BTW Mr. Franklin will be at the TSGA blow out in Dallas the first weekend in March. Hope to see you there.

fred

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"From Truth, Justice is Born"--Quanah Parker-1904

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 5 Feb 2005 8:43 am

Frank Estes: "Basically, the Zums, JCHs and similar guitars are simply Emmons Legrande clones! Think about it!

"

Frank- I wonder if you'd have gotten Jimmie Crawford or would get Bruce Zumsteag to agree with you. I kind of doubt it...it seems to me that builders find a way of putting their own stamp on things- otherwise, why bother? They are in it for the money about as much as the real players are

Especially with non-assembly line custom crafted instruments. I know Bill Collings would take exception to someone calling his dreadnoughts "Martin clones" or the many archtop builders- very few of them are "Gibson clones".

There's inspiration and standards, some folks look at those as unmatchable benchmarks (usually the owners of such brands

), and others (builders with vision) look at it as the record to beat. Or to die trying, anyway.

One thing for true- Nobody doesn't love a great Emmons or Sho-Bud or your brand here...

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

[This message was edited by John McGann on 05 February of Long Winter 2005 at 08:48 AM.][This message was edited by John McGann on 05 February 2005 at 08:52 AM.]

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 5 Feb 2005 8:52 am

A Sho - Bud can be as good as an Emmons if you have the underneath parts replaced with Emmons parts. I once knew a player who did just that. He ended up with Shobud killer looks and Emmons killer sound and mechanics. He even changed the name plate to reflect what it truly was a SHO ~ EMM i GUES HE HAD THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!!!

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 5 Feb 2005 8:52 am

Ya'll just need to buy a Carter or something and stop worrying about wasting any more time or money on those
"heavy, weak, bad sounding, ugly, low-tech old guitars."
I think Bobbe Seymour must have been talking about Emmonses and Sho-Buds when he wrote that blurb for GFI, right?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 5 Feb 2005 9:39 am

Dave.

Doug makes his telecaster sound like an Emmons too.

Sho Buds?

I'm seeing more and more of them on the Opry, and the radio.

What Herb Steiner said was about the "last word" as well as anybody could put it. They are "year by year".

He and I will both soon see if the great equalizer will be the Marrs Retrofit. I'll know for sure by next Monday..

Until now, and I"m admittedly partial, the ProIII, was the crowning glory mechanically for "regular players". The guitars have been tested for thousands of gigs, and the worst kind of constant abuse, by the most cruel of guitar abusers.

By then the fad was over, Baldwin sold to Gretsch, after selling every good guitar in their warehouse to dealers for 500$ or less, they tried a few "new improved models", a "keyless" and faded into the sunset.

Only to return bigger than ever twenty years later, with no company at all..

Go figure.

EJL

Gary Preston · Post by **Gary Preston** » 5 Feb 2005 2:15 pm

As with these kind of subjects they will go on and on . There is no end to it . But i think if you have lets say three different brands of steel in a room with the door shut and Lloyd or Buddie or some of the other ''Pros'' sit down to play each one ,it's my openion you will never know which steel that is being played . As you all know the hands is where most of the tone comes from . I know there are different pickups that do have some tone difference and amps but we aren't talking about that topic . Just a little more fuel to throw onto the ''flame'' . G.P. [This message was edited by Gary Preston on 05 February 2005 at 02:17 PM.]

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 5 Feb 2005 5:11 pm

Good topic,i still think if sho-bud would come back today,with all the new tecnology,we would see them all over the stages again.they already have the name, and quality to back it.shame to see it go to waste!!unless something changes emmons will be a use to be.shame but seems to be the future.
farris

LARRY COLE · Post by **LARRY COLE** » 5 Feb 2005 5:45 pm

GARY PRESTON you instigator.

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Playing For JESUS,LC. WILLIAMS U12,SHO-BUD PRO1,CARVIN TL60,GIBSON LES PAUL CUSTOM,YAMAHA L-10A ACOUSTIC,ROLAND JW-50 KEYBOARD,G&L AND BC RICH BASS'S

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 6 Feb 2005 9:42 am

TB,

Many years ago, I had Duane Marrs put his all pull mechanism in a '66 Emmons P/P (or was it a '65?). I know, dumb move. But it was kind of cool and man the pedals stayed in tune a lot better. It eventually got turned back into its original P/P self, I think by Mike Cass.

TC

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Feb 2005 9:58 am

But i think if you have lets say three different brands of steel in a room with the door shut and Lloyd or Buddie or some of the other ''Pros'' sit down to play each one ,it's my openion you will never know which steel that is being played.

Okay, have Lloyd and Buddy show up, Lloyd with his LDG and Buddy with "the Blade". Do you really think that we couldn't hear the difference if they switched guitars? Hey, my ear isn't that great, but I'm not deaf!

It's harder on modern guitars, but those classic old instruments have very distinctive tones.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 6 Feb 2005 10:35 am

Joey said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Bobbe had one in his shop a few months ago that was a Push Pull converted to an All Pull.

At the time somebody must of thought it was a good idea. Now we know that this very expensive modification only decreased the value of the guitar.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've got a newsletter from Steel Guitar World, Goodlettsville, TN, dated January 1986.

"We are still doing Emmons all pull conversions..."

Lee, from South Texas

Greg Simmons · Post by **Greg Simmons** » 6 Feb 2005 10:55 am

"Basically, the Zums, JCHs and similar guitars are simply Emmons Legrande clones! Think about it!

Yeah, I guess if you think along the lines of a Caddy as simply a Chevy clone

p.s. I love my Chevy

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<size=-1>I always knew that there was something out there that I needed to get to.
And it wasn't where I was at that particular moment."
-Bob Dylan
</size>

[This message was edited by Greg Simmons on 06 February 2005 at 10:56 AM.]

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 6 Feb 2005 5:37 pm

"Why have so many professional players and some legends including Lloyd Green had their Shobuds retrofitted by Duane Marrs and associates?"
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Maybe it's the sound that, in its interest, deserves the preservation and improvement of the machinery.

Clyde Lane · Post by **Clyde Lane** » 6 Feb 2005 7:03 pm

I think the bottom side of Lloyd's guitar is still mostly Sho-Bud. Maybe Duane,Jeff or Richy Davis will chime in here.

Clyde