Still breaking 3rds...HELP!!

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 26 Jan 2005 6:14 am

Replaced the entire roller nut assembly,it is VERY freewheeling now, but am still breaking 011's about every 3 hours of playtime. Before anyone asks,NO there are no burrs,grooves,lumps or bumps on the changer! This steel gets VERY little playtime,and its not even a year old. I have checked that changer VERY closely. Looks like I'm going to have to live with this..

Anyway how would you guys handle this?? I know I'll get longer life from Jagwires,but I like the sound of my Ernies just fine,plus I can get them locally. Does it make sense to keep some Jag 011's on hand to equalize the string life of the 3rd in relation to the rest of the strings on the guitar??Would it be out of whack tone wise with the Ernies??... Can I even GET the Jag 011's in singles?? Any other long life strings that are readily available without having to get them MAILED here??/ bob

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 26 Jan 2005 6:49 am

Hey Bob, on my old ShoBud I used .011's for years and when I got my BMI I tried them and they wouldn't last at all. I went to .010's and haven't had any trouble at all. Also on string 5 on the 'bud I used a .018 and on the BMI I have to use a .017. Also, I've used Ernie Ball strings for many years with no problems.........JH

------------------
Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 26 January 2005 at 06:50 AM.]

gene brown · Post by **gene brown** » 26 Jan 2005 6:51 am

I was breaking 3rd strings like that to.I put more wraps on the key head,and it really helped.I was afraid to wind it up,but I don't have any trouble now. Hope you get it worked out. Gene

Virgil Pittman · Post by **Virgil Pittman** » 26 Jan 2005 7:37 am

Hi Bob,
I own a small music store in northeast Oklahoma.I also own two Zum steel guitars and play out at the clubs every Friday and Saturday night.I Have used both Ernie Ball and GHS strings for many years and never had a problem until recently.I got in an order for a gross of Ernie .011"s.I,like you,could not get over three hours of playing time out of them,and sometimes even less.I now use GHS .011's and get about 12 hours of playing time out of them.I still use Ernie Ball strings sometimes and have no problems with the other sizes.I am sure it's possible to get strings from any company that for whatever reason just won't cut it.Maby just a bad batch.Hope this helps and if you want, I can mail you some GHS to try out.

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 26 Jan 2005 7:52 am

I had a previous post about a bad batch of strings. I broke 3 just trying to tune them to pitch.
I installed a new set of Jagwires and have had no more problems.
Yes, you can buy single strings of any gauge right here on the forum. I am sold on Jagwire strings.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 26 Jan 2005 8:12 am

Bob,
Try a .012 for the 3rd string. That's what I use and get good life out of it and it also sounds better than the thin ones.
Erv

mtulbert · Post by **mtulbert** » 26 Jan 2005 8:49 am

Bob,

Carl Dixon gave this tip and it works great. Try putting a drop of machine oil under the string at the changer. It sounds bizarre but it works. I can't remember the last time I broke the third string and I am using .012 string for the third.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 26 Jan 2005 8:56 am

Bob, the Jagwire 0.0115 might help. And it sounds more balanced to me than a 0.011 or 0.012. You can buy the singles right here on the Forum from Bob. I'd be wary of an 0.010. The 0.011 already sounds weak compared to the other standard strings. If an 0.010 really solves your problem, maybe you could down size the other strings to keep the balance. First I'd try the Jag 0.011, 0.0115, and the 0.012, to see if any of them help your problem. If so, then buy several 12 packs to keep on hand.[This message was edited by David Doggett on 26 January 2005 at 08:57 AM.]

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 26 Jan 2005 9:48 am

Dave's right. An .0115 and a drop of oil on the changer roller and I'll bet you don't break 'em.

ROBERT MYERS · Post by **ROBERT MYERS** » 26 Jan 2005 10:24 am

Hey Bob, If you would like some 011's email me your address and I'll mail you a bunch. Make sure to put steel or strings or something like that in the subject header or it will go to my spam folder.

------------------
Bob Myers Pedalmaster Classic 8 & 7 Profex2 Nashville 400 Digitech RP 100

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 26 Jan 2005 10:28 am

GUYS.. Thanks for the oil tip,but I've been doing that for about 29 YEARS!!

..The 3 hours before POP!!,is WITH oil under the string.. I'm not sure about the 012... maybe I'll get some single Jag 11's and try them...bob

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 26 Jan 2005 10:37 am

Like Erv, I use 12's and have no problems. I play a 74 Sho-Bud.[This message was edited by Randy Reeves on 26 January 2005 at 10:38 AM.]

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 26 Jan 2005 10:40 am

Bob, I didn't see any mention of "where" the string breaks. If it breaks at the changer the oil will help. If it breaks in the middle you probably have bad strings.

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 26 Jan 2005 10:59 am

BOB,this is crazy,i admit.but i had a professional in early 70s did not break a string,i ordered a new pro2 in later 70s,and could not keep strings on it.i now have a pro3 80s, a professional 69 and mid pro 1,and just don't break strings at all.i am now running a .012 and they just last and last.Ricky has gave some real good pointers on here before.all the oil,polishing ect.will not make any difference!!been there!!i think if i had to go thru it again,i would order a new puller,and change the pull holes ect.mabe just the stroke might be snaping the strings.yes,crazy,but something got to be doing it.Good luck man!!! farris

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 26 Jan 2005 12:41 pm

Bob, I think you have done everything except what you are going to do..

it is VERY important to change the brand of strings and chart the situation. As noted above it could easily be a bad batch of .50 cent strings giving you grief on your $3000 Instrument.

I would stick to an .011..just go to a Jagwire or Cobra..something different..

maybe try two different brands.

I can tell ya this..I had been using Cobras and it seemed I got very good life..I am now using Ernie Balls and I am noticing breakage..but I also think it is related to what I practice as well ..lots of AB pedal smashing...but certainly more than 3 hours..I would estimate in the 15 hour range...

good luck

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 26 January 2005 at 12:42 PM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 26 Jan 2005 1:20 pm

I'm kinda with Francis on this. Unless you just got a bad batch of strings, it seems like there is something about that particular guitar. Maybe the neck is a hair longer, or the changer roller or nut roller has a smaller radius, or the pedal action is less smooth, or something of that nature. On every pedal steel I have had (five brands and counting), and with every guage and brand of strings I have tried (lots), my 3rd string breaks after a few hours of playing. The different guages and string brands make a little difference, but not much. Actually, 3 solid hours of playing is probably not too different than what I get. But you seem to have noticed that your particular guitar is worse than others you have had. So I'm thinking there is something slightly different about it.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 26 Jan 2005 1:45 pm

Years ago on my old ShoBud SUper Pro I had a similar problem - I changed to .012's and this fixed it. You should try out the Jagwire strings, they are excellent and I'm sure will fix the problem, they are extremely durable.

Try Jagwires and a different gauge string !!

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 26 Jan 2005 4:14 pm

amen to what Erv says

Tom Diemer · Post by **Tom Diemer** » 26 Jan 2005 4:24 pm

I have a Carter D-10. It came with Ernie Ball strings. When I opened the box, it sat there with a broken 3rd string. For me Ernie Ball strings break almost as soon as I get them to pitch. Just can't use them. I have a whole box sitting here I can't use. No comment on tone, I can't get them on the steel.

Cobra Coils work pretty well, maybe 8 hours on a 3rd string. Decent tone. Not great.

Jagwire (I didn't really give them a fair test, bought 3 sets the same day) broke all 3 3rd strings before putting on the second set. I was very disappointed, I think the world of Danny and how he does business. Some tuning issues for me. I would need to do some setup to use them. Had problems keeping pulls in tune - they came back flat very badly. Have no idea why, but they weren't on the guitar very long. I thought something was breaking on the steel, switched back to GHS and the problem disappeared. Maybe someone could shed some light on this for me? I want to try them again soon.

GHS last until I'm ready to change them. Seriously, the set on there now are 2 months old, no breaks. No other brand I've tried last as long as GHS. I've broken maybe 2 3rd strings in the last year, and I play it a lot. Not playing out anywhere, so I wait longer than most people would to change them.

I'm with the others, try different brands until you find what works for you.

For me, I like taking off the 3rd in one piece when it's worn out. So far, only GHS does that consistantly on my steel.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 26 Jan 2005 4:55 pm

Maybe a dumb question but... Is your tuner calibrated? I've seen breakage problems occur because a tuner wasn't set up right. If you're always trying to tune a string too high, it will break.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 26 Jan 2005 5:35 pm

b0b.. Tuner is ok.. I use 4 different ones AND a piano!!.. Its just this particular guitar.. I just thought of something.. I DO use Ernies, but most of these "poppers" are my D'Addarrio spares... hmm??? I wonder...

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 26 Jan 2005 6:48 pm

Hi Bob, I get excellent service from SIT Signature Silent Series strings available from Frenchy's Pedal Steel Guitar Shop in Belen, NM. They come in nickel or stainless. have never broken a string on a job. Jody.

Bob Moss · Post by **Bob Moss** » 26 Jan 2005 7:50 pm

I had the same problem for years and it turns out that it was playing not the guitar. I was pressing down on the bar to hard and picking a bit to agressively. I didn't find it out until i sat in on other peoples steel guitars who did not have a problem until i played it. It took me a while but i don't break 3rds anymore.
Who would have thought.

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 26 Jan 2005 8:31 pm

Bob,
I know this might sound a little far fetched, but, have you given a good look at your finger picks lately.I used to brake thirds quite often and just chalked it up to the nature of the guages. But,I checked my National .025 picks and found that they were very sharp on the right side and actually a little ragged from picking the wound strings, I guess. I changed over to a new (old) set of Nationals and haven't had a problem with any thirds breaking since. I do use .011's for the third string all the time. Just a thought to contemplate and confuse.

John Bresler · Post by **John Bresler** » 27 Jan 2005 7:28 am

I can't tell you how frustrated I was for a long time, breaking that 3rd string. Then I got a set from Frenchy's music, made by S.I.T. by the way, and have very seldom broken any string. Frenchy's are reinforced pg strings and now I change my strings when I want to.