I've not yet fully field tested this possible solution, but I'm very hopeful and thought it may be of use to those with Duesenberg's right now.
Part of the issue with the Duesenberg is that the string rides and rubs directly over the stainless steel axle and as a result, deforms and weakens the string at that point. My idea / possible solution was to get the string up off the axle and eliminate the rub point. The pics explain it better than I can with text, but a few particulars for those that want to try their own, the material is Delrin / acetal .055" thick x 7/8" long.
For those that have one of my steels with the Duesenberg, give me a shout and I'd be happy to send some out for you to try.
On a banjo I use Teflon tubing on the strings where the old style cam "D" tuners rub against the strings. Never had a problem with the strings wearing through.
That delrin is tough stuff.
I'm not sure which is the greater factor in string preservation -- the reduction in friction or the reduction in the radius of the bend -- I suspect it is a combination of those factors. It does not surprise me at all that it works. Good stuff.
Scott ... It is not tubing but solid material. I'm hopeful that it should be durable and last a fair time, time will tell. Delrin / acetal is pretty tough and super slippery. I use it for the nuts on my bender steels and it has been holding up very well.
Allen ... I had thought of some teflon tubing and I'm sure it would help a lot. Ultimately I wanted something that stayed in place between string changes and not too fiddly to get in place.
Jon Light wrote:That delrin is tough stuff.
I'm not sure which is the greater factor in string preservation -- the reduction in friction or the reduction in the radius of the bend -- I suspect it is a combination of those factors. It does not surprise me at all that it works. Good stuff.
Jon ... I think you are correct that it will be a combination of the two. With the string now riding on the Delrin, the friction factor is not an issue. As much as I like the bridge, it was a poor decision to make the string channel like they did. From an ease of manufacturing point, I can see why they opted for a straight cut channel. A straight cut is easier to mill than an arc that would avoid the through hole for the axle.
Pre-mature string breakage is something that is faced by Telecaster B-Bender players..
Have a look at what is talked about a LOT on the B-Bender sub-forum of the TDPRI Forum... many folks get a good run out of running the string through the Teflon (?) liner out of a bicycle brake cable...
If my wife is reading this, I don't have much stuff....really!
good solution...people have also had luck with putting in a roller nut to ease the impulse stretching, and also adding a ball end over the string before installing to move the windings away further - some believe that they stress the string if the touch anything.
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham "CooderNator" archtop parlor electric reso w/Fishman & Lollar string-through
Ben Bonham "ResoBorn" deep parlor acoustic reso with Weissenborn neck and Fishman
Ben Bonham Style 3 Tricone., 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor Squareneck
Peter Harris wrote:... many folks get a good run out of running the string through the Teflon (?) liner out of a bicycle brake cable...
I'll bet that would help with a B bender. Unfortunately the string path on the Duesenberg is pretty narrow and would not fit.
Steve Lipsey wrote:good solution...people have also had luck with putting in a roller nut to ease the impulse stretching, and also adding a ball end over the string before installing to move the windings away further - some believe that they stress the string if the touch anything.
I've done the extra ball end to move the wrap farther back off the axle and it does seem to help some. I don't use roller nuts and have not seen any breakage on that end of the string. Its always where the string rides, rubs, and deforms on the hard stainless axle.
I've fitted the inserts on 3 guitars now and so far so good. They certainly will not totally cure breakage though. Bend and stretch a piece of steel enough and it will eventually break, just the nature of the beast.
the roller nut isn't to stop breakage there - it is to make the whole string movement smoother and less jerky, I'd say, so it would help throughout the whole length...
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham "CooderNator" archtop parlor electric reso w/Fishman & Lollar string-through
Ben Bonham "ResoBorn" deep parlor acoustic reso with Weissenborn neck and Fishman
Ben Bonham Style 3 Tricone., 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor Squareneck
FWIW..I have a (slide) Telecaster with a 6-lever custom Bigsby Palm Pedal, it also has a Fender LSR Roller Nut, roller string trees and locking tuners...works for me.
..but then, I guess I'm funny like that.....and the BPP probably has a larger radius than the Duesen Burger to pull strings over..
HTH
Peter
If my wife is reading this, I don't have much stuff....really!
In Dan Erlewine's book "Guitar Player Repair Guide" he has a brief profile of a slide guitarist (my copy is hiding from me, so no name) who filed litte cutouts in Fender Stratocaster bent-steel bridge saddles, and fitted little BONE pieces in the slots. Bone is somewhat harder than delrin, and at least for nuts I find it much easier to work with. Delrin does a good job of resisting the friction of files too if you're being a tad too light - and then when you do bear down enough it cuts REALLY fast. It's somewhat more predictible if you use sandpaper in different grits instead of toothed files; but that thing looks like it might finally make a GOOD use for all the little 1/2" bone scraps you get when you cut the excess off bone nuts blanks! Bone strength IS somewhat directional; for guitar nuts it's perfect because the "grain" direction prevents the nuts cracking in the middle, but if you were to file some very thin curved pieces you'd want to pay attention to the direction of the "grain." Or: those slots look narrow enough to possibly use slices off of guitar picks. There's a recently-surfaced plastic used for picks called "Ultem" (Dunlop = "Ultex") that's so wear-resistent picks just don't wear out. Claton and Dunlop both have them, and they MAY get thick enough - Ultex Jazz picks go to 2mm thick.
(Household hint fron Mr. Cheapman: if you're buying bone nut blanks from LMII or Stewie-Mac, look at acoustic saddle blanks - they're the same price or 25c more than nut blanks and there's enough bone to make TWO electic nuts.)
Steve Lipsey wrote:the roller nut isn't to stop breakage there - it is to make the whole string movement smoother and less jerky, I'd say, so it would help throughout the whole length...
Got ya ... binding in the nut is not good and smooth string movement over the entire length of the string is important.
Rather than use a roller nut on my steels, I use Delrin and a headstock design with a straight pull over the nut with a tilt back angle of around 8 degrees. That gives me a super slippery string path without excessive side to side or downward friction. The advantage of me doing it that way is that I can make a nut in any size, number of strings, string spacing, and important to me, being able to keep the tops of all the strings level.
Peter Harris wrote:... I have a (slide) Telecaster with a 6-lever custom Bigsby Palm Pedal ...
Now there is a rare bird I wish Bigsby would bring back their palm pedals.
David Mason wrote:... There's a recently-surfaced plastic used for picks called "Ultem" (Dunlop = "Ultex") that's so wear-resistent picks just don't wear out. Claton and Dunlop both have them, and they MAY get thick enough - Ultex Jazz picks go to 2mm thick. ...
I'll bet that would work great. The slot on the Duesenberg lever can vary slightly, but generally right at .055" which translates to about 1.4mm
The slot on the Duesenberg lever can vary slightly, but generally right at .055" which translates to about 1.4mm
Well you ought to be in hog heaven then. I don't know how you're sourcing your delrin, but Clayton makes some nice "acetal" picks that come in a wide variety of thicknesses, Dunlop also has some pure delrin picks. These two make most of the picks for other manufacturers, they and "Pickboy" in Japan are the big three. Dunlop's famed "Tortex" is a delrin-ish compound hardened with powdered silica (glass). Their red Jazz III picks are nylon, the black ones are nylon hardened with silica. They also have "Primetones" and "Jazztones" and who knows what-all. Their pick page is one of the greatest writing feats of the 21st Century, because they make like 40 or 50 different picks - and every single one is better than all the others! http://www.jimdunlop.com/products/guitar-picks
Peter Harris wrote:... I have a (slide) Telecaster with a 6-lever custom Bigsby Palm Pedal ...
"Now there is a rare bird I wish Bigsby would bring back their palm pedals."
Bigsby sold the rights (via a few other transactions) to Dan Balde, who continued to sell them until he passed away about 3 or 4 years ago... To the best of my knowledge, that was 'IT' as far as more BPPs go.. As you know, s/hand ones go reasonably quickly on ebay..
Mine started out as a 2-lever, was modified into a 4-lever by a friend of mine in the States, was passed on to a friend of his in Australia...I bought it when I found out about it's whereabouts and re-engineered it completely into a 6-lever with 4 'raises' and 2 'raise-and-lower'...
...in part, my exercise was also inspired by the late Boomer Castleman, whose own design was originally bought by Bigsby, who then altered it so they could use existing Bigsby parts.
...but that's not exactly what this thread was all about... ..oops!
If my wife is reading this, I don't have much stuff....really!
Tom,
There's a company called Blue Chip Picks that you may or may not be aware of. They make guitar, banjo and dobro picks that are incredibly durable. They're expensive at $35 to $45 apiece but they last quite awhile. You'd be surprised at the performers that have used and continue to use these picks, Jerry Douglas, dobro master being one of them. You might check with them and see if you can't secure a piece of their material to continue your experiment with the Duesenburg (sp?). www.bluechippick.net
I wish Bigsby would bring back their palm pedals.
