| Author |
Topic: Why is pop so hard on C6?? |
Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 26 Jun 2016 11:05 pm |
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| Been trying to play the beauty & the beast tune similar to GD Walker... I love the big thick bottom end chords. He plays it on his U12, and I'm trying to play it on C6 to get the lower notes. It seems much more intuitive on e9th, but the low strings aren't there. Are pop tune instrumentals generally less convenient on C6? |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 26 Jun 2016 11:46 pm
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| ok, I confess... just spent another hour on it and it's not as bad... any pointers are still appreciated though! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 3:09 am
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The changes and layout of the C6th neck both foster and require a different way of thinking than the E9th neck.
My only suggestion is to spend more time on the neck and let it reveal its mysteries.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 6:12 am
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I tend to always think of the C6 as the "Full Chord Neck", and the E9 as the "Triad Neck".
But... For more simple songs that benefit from the lower notes, I have altered my copedant to where I can achieve straight dominant 7th chords in all positions. That helps in cases where the big 9th chords created by pedals 5 & 6 just don't sound right.
I can't think of what chords "Beauty and The Beast" has. Is it big chords or mostly triads? |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 7:23 am
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deleted
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube.
Last edited by Joachim Kettner on 28 Jun 2016 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 8:53 am
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| Jeff Harbour wrote: |
I tend to always think of the C6 as the "Full Chord Neck", and the E9 as the "Triad Neck".
But... For more simple songs that benefit from the lower notes, I have altered my copedant to where I can achieve straight dominant 7th chords in all positions. That helps in cases where the big 9th chords created by pedals 5 & 6 just don't sound right.
I can't think of what chords "Beauty and The Beast" has. Is it big chords or mostly triads? |
It has I, IV, V chords with a iim. Key of F. I can get it most of it, but I'm rigging the short Em chord with single notes because I can't find an accessible Em on my chord chart that has the few notes I'm looking for.
The song is played in the background on this page:
http://www.stereosteel.com/GDcomp_features.html |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 9:01 am
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Em with standard changes, just off the top of my head:
Open, lowered 3rd string
Fret 4, P6 (lower strings)
Fret 5, P6 (upper strings, if your 1st is D)
Fret 7
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 10:30 am
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Goodness gracious... My apologies for another thread created due to my silliness... First of all, I'm not sure how I came to the belief that Em was the iim chord in the key of F  and second of all... It's not a iim chord, it's a iiim chord.... that would be Am  Sounds ALOT better when I the play the right chord!! |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 10:59 am
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| Wow, that's funny that we all missed that. Glad you found it. I hope you have lots of enjoyment exploring the "Good Neck"... |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 2:18 pm C6
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| I wish somebody would come up with a C6 chord chart in the same way as the old Mel Bay E9 chart. Sure would be easier to learn all the chords. |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 4:15 pm
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| I'm wanting to play all types of steel music... from Jazz steel to instrumental's like GD Walker, to classic country, to modern country... That's why I traded in my SD10 for a D10. Is there any reason I should consider a U12? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 4:18 pm
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http://herbsteiner.com/C6_essay.pdf
Check this out
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 5:13 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
http://herbsteiner.com/C6_essay.pdf
Check this out |
Thanks, Lane. What do the all the vertically oriented numbers and letters mean?
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 5:14 pm
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Scale degrees of the notes you're playing in each chord.
All of these are at the nut.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Steve Green
From:
Gulfport, MS, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 7:01 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
http://herbsteiner.com/C6_essay.pdf
Check this out
Thanks, Lane. What do the all the vertically oriented numbers and letters mean?
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So . . . according to this chart, strings 2-7 of a C6th 10 string pedal steel, are the same notes as a basic 6 string C6 non-pedal lap steel?
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Some songs I've written |
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Ken Pippus
From:
Langford, BC, Canada
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Posted 27 Jun 2016 7:52 pm
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| Yup. Same tuning. |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2016 3:16 am
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| Dave Stroud wrote: |
| I'm wanting to play all types of steel music... from Jazz steel to instrumental's like GD Walker, to classic country, to modern country... That's why I traded in my SD10 for a D10. Is there any reason I should consider a U12? |
Whether to play a D-10 or a U-12 is strictly a matter of personal preference due to your own perceptions of each. The fact that you are even asking that question is a clear indicator that you SHOULD at least consider the U-12. You may end up switching back, or it may prove to be a perfect fit for you.
But... If you are comfortable with your D-10, then there is no 'need' to have a U-12 unless you find yourself regularly switching necks mid-song. I doubt anybody has to do that often, so it's back to personal preference. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2016 2:54 pm
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| Jeff Harbour wrote: |
| Dave Stroud wrote: |
| I'm wanting to play all types of steel music... from Jazz steel to instrumental's like GD Walker, to classic country, to modern country... That's why I traded in my SD10 for a D10. Is there any reason I should consider a U12? |
Whether to play a D-10 or a U-12 is strictly a matter of personal preference due to your own perceptions of each. The fact that you are even asking that question is a clear indicator that you SHOULD at least consider the U-12. You may end up switching back, or it may prove to be a perfect fit for you.
But... If you are comfortable with your D-10, then there is no 'need' to have a U-12 unless you find yourself regularly switching necks mid-song. I doubt anybody has to do that often, so it's back to personal preference. |
I "switch necks" on three songs on the current setlist. I use a U12. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Jun 2016 5:23 pm
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I don't "have to" switch necks mid-song, but I choose to. Regularly.
At least as far as I'm concerned, each neck not only supports different modes of thought and expression, but they foster/encourage different modes of thought and expression. If I change my line of thought, I change necks. Sometimes mid-solo.
Fortunately, I prefer the tone of leaving both necks hot, so switching is just moving hands and legs.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 28 Jun 2016 6:01 pm C6
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| So the strings showing the scale degrees, can be the string grips for that particular chord? Wish i had a printed copy of that chart, sure would help me on C6. Can i order a printed copy from Herb? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Jun 2016 6:18 pm
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You can ask him. Or talk to your local printers. Kinkos will let you email a pdf to an address for them to print them.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 28 Jun 2016 7:17 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
I don't "have to" switch necks mid-song, but I choose to. Regularly.
At least as far as I'm concerned, each neck not only supports different modes of thought and expression, but they foster/encourage different modes of thought and expression. If I change my line of thought, I change necks. Sometimes mid-solo.
Fortunately, I prefer the tone of leaving both necks hot, so switching is just moving hands and legs. |
I'm starting to experiment with this too. There are definitely things that the C6 neck can do that the E9 can't, and vice versa. I just discovered today how nice it sounds accompanying voice with just those thick 5-6-7 power chords on the C6.... it somewhat resembles a guitar, but with some neat pedal steel characteristics. I longed for that kind of ability on E9 before I got a D10... Just voice & steel. but I didn't want to go fudging with creating some kind of custom copedent/string guages. I imagine an extended E9 would be neat... but it wouldn't be enough to constitute getting rid of the C6 (for Jazz), so why add 2 more strings to the existing 20? A D10 seems to have it all.... |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 28 Jun 2016 7:34 pm C6
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| Okie doke, Ill email Herb and ask him. Thanks |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2016 3:29 am
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| Dave Stroud wrote: |
| ...so why add 2 more strings to the existing 20? A D10 seems to have it all.... |
There you go... I think you are a D-10 player. I am too. Some guys just find it more natural to consolidate.
I guess I should amend what I said. As some have pointed out, "switching necks" can be done easily. (Watch Buddy Charleton play "Cool It" with the Texas Troubadours, it's on Youtube.) What I should have said is that the only "need" for a U-12 is if your entire style consists of a constant smooth mesh between the tunings... and you think of it as "one big tuning". This would be more along the lines of Maurice Anderson or Joe Wright. |
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Adam Tracksler
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2016 5:18 am
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| You should check out Larry Behm's "Rocking the Pockets" DVD. Its transformative. |
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