Looking for Power Amp suggestions to use with Sarno Pre-amp

Jeff Rady · Post by **Jeff Rady** » 9 Jun 2016 9:08 pm

Hey all,

I was wondering what your thoughts were for purchasing a lightweight power amp to use with a Sarno Revelation Pre-Amp (has tubes) and a 15' Telonics speaker and cab.

I like the sound of tubes best. Would the Revelation Pre-Amp with tubes still give me a tube-like sound if I used a solid state power-amp? Would a Quilter Tone Block work with the pre-amp? I'd love to hear your thoughts!

Thanks,

Jeff Rady

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 10 Jun 2016 2:01 am

My Milkman sounds right tubal, with a Class D power section.
Any good Class D ought to work well

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 10 Jun 2016 4:11 am

Stewart World 1.2 here with Rev. and Telonics speakers

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 10 Jun 2016 4:14 am

All tube amps sound different, so if you say you like the tube sound, which specific tube sound is it that you like?

I've had luck with solid state and tube amps. A big part of that is finding the right speakers to help get the sound you want, because that is where the air is moved and that is a big part of the dynamic response. If you have an amp with good dynamic response, you want the speaker that brings that out.

I have a 100 watt Twin Reverb and a preamp/power amp setup that uses a Carvin DCM-600 amp. I have no complaints about the sound. If you get a solid state amp, make sure its powerful exceeds by far your needs.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 10 Jun 2016 6:35 am

The Revalation preamp has stereo outputs so if you you are looking for a tube stereo amp they are heavy unless you try a Mesa Boogie 20/20 that may not have enough power for your needs. If you go Mono SS there are many choices especially if you bridge the the output. The Stewart World 1.2 is a great choice.

Jeff Rady · Post by **Jeff Rady** » 10 Jun 2016 6:59 am

Hi Mike,

I like tube configs, 6l6's or el34's. I'd be okay with some break up sometimes. I want headroom, but not necessarily endless headroom.I've been looking at the Carvin Ts100 as well. Can anyone clarify the basic concept of the functions of a power amp vs. a pre amp? Thanks for the suggestions!

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 10 Jun 2016 10:22 am

Jeff Rady wrote:Hi Mike,

I like tube configs, 6l6's or el34's. I'd be okay with some break up sometimes. I want headroom, but not necessarily endless headroom.I've been looking at the Carvin Ts100 as well. Can anyone clarify the basic concept of the functions of a power amp vs. a pre amp? Thanks for the suggestions!

The preamp prepares the signal for amplification. The tone shaping, gain, etc. are all done in this stage. The power amplifier takes the signal from the pre and amplifies it enough to drive the speakers.

A tube power amp will have some of the tube coloration in the sound where a solid state amp may be more flat or neutral. The harmonic distortion can be extremely pleasing with a tube amp. Solid state amps can be a little cold in this regard. Still, I love the reliability, and paired with the right speakers they can sound every bit as good. There are also several types of amplifiers, such as push-pull, Class A. All this is important to look into.

Patrick Ickes · Post by **Patrick Ickes** » 10 Jun 2016 10:37 am

I've used an ADA Microtube 200 since mid 90's for rack gear. Has 2 12AX7s for 'coloring' and MOSFET output. 200 watts mono, 100 each stereo. Single space, light weight, USA made in Oakland, CA.
Way under priced in the used gear market.
Patrick

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 10 Jun 2016 12:56 pm

Stewart World 1.2 gets my vote.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 10 Jun 2016 12:56 pm

Jeff Rady wrote:Hi Mike,

I like tube configs, 6l6's or el34's. I'd be okay with some break up sometimes. I want headroom, but not necessarily endless headroom.I've been looking at the Carvin Ts100 as well. Can anyone clarify the basic concept of the functions of a power amp vs. a pre amp? Thanks for the suggestions!

In addition to what Mike Neer said (or to expand on what he meant by "prepares the signal for amplification"), one of the main jobs of preamps is to raise the voltage of the signal to the level that the power amp can work at efficiently. The pickups put out just a couple hundred mV (usually), and the power amp likes to see somewhere around a volt.
Preamps don't put out much current, either.
In order to drive the speakers, the power amp raises the voltage from around 1V to in the neighborhood of 20-30 (according to my memory, and I'm not Tim Marcus), and around 9 amps (power is IÂ²R, so 300 Watts into a 4 Ohm load:300/4 is 75. The square root of 75 is somewhere just under 9. No wonder amps don't like 2 Ohm loads. 300W at 2 Ohms goes from just under 9A to just over 12)

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 11 Jun 2016 5:02 am

Carvin DCM200L Much better choice then the tone block.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 11 Jun 2016 5:16 am

I used to have a MosValve 500 amp. Heavy but was designed for musical instrument amplification. Many considered this as the best power amp for instrument amplification.

I find the P.A. amps are "too clean" and tend to be "sterile" as they are designed for wide range high fidelity. I had a Peavey DPC1000 and hated it, I tried a Carvin P.A. amp and it was sent back. I tried a Crown power amp and same way.

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 11 Jun 2016 9:44 am

I have tried some lower powered amps than Stewart 1.2 and they were not as clean or did not sound as good to me. They seemed a little gritty to me.
I started out with other pre-amps and ran them in front of a nashville amp and it didn't seem like I was getting an improvement over plugged straight into a Nash 112. or Session 400.
I kept trying different things and had a wicked hum..
Finally after about a year and a half of screwing around and connected the amp with high impedance mic type cords I got it right for me.
It was not cheap and I often tell people that I don't really recommend a rack system for this reason.
It is not a simple as one might think to put together a rack sys.
Much simpler to use a combo. ^_^

Jeff Rady · Post by **Jeff Rady** » 12 Jun 2016 5:38 pm

Thanks guys! This is all really good intel. I found a Stewart World 1.2 for a good deal, and I'm going to try that, hoping the Revelation pre-amp will help warm up my tone with it's tubes. Mesa 20/20's were what I was more interested in, but they're fairly expensive. I really appreciate the help. I remember growing up in the 90's everybody seemed to have rackmount amps, and then it all changed back to combos, but I seem to not be able to get exactly what I want with the combo, so I hope this will be the ticket. We'll see...

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 13 Jun 2016 7:46 am

I trade back and forth between a rack system and a Webb combo amp.
Kind of like choosing between a Mounds or an Almond Joy.
Some days I like nuts and some days I don't!

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 13 Jun 2016 3:33 pm

Telonics Stereo Power Amp PA4200 - one rack space, light weight and plenty of horsepower !

gary pierce · Post by **gary pierce** » 14 Jun 2016 9:56 am

Telonics makes high quality equipment, but not everyone can afford that price range. I would love to have the Telonics combo amp over any of them.

Dave Stroud · Post by **Dave Stroud** » 14 Jun 2016 6:15 pm

I've noticed some people raving about the toneblock with a good tube preamp, but there hasn't been that kind of feedback on this thread. For those who have tried the toneblock, what makes you prefer a different power amp as opposed to the quilter? What kind of sound were you going for, and what rig were you running through it?

Jeff Rady · Post by **Jeff Rady** » 26 Sep 2016 11:25 am

After some experimenting, I've got my rig together. I've found that the Sarno Revelation pre-amp through the Stewart World 1.2 with a Yamaha Spx-90 Reverb all 3 known together as "The Rig", is the best overall amp I've been able to find for steel that works for my personal tastes. I tried a 65 Fender Twin Re-Issue head to check and see if that was a better combo, but it wasn't. The "Rig" holds up better as far as getting a more clean yet still not too sterile tone. Having the tubes in the Sarno warms things up nicely, and having the clean head room of the Stewart gives it a lot of dynamic power. I noticed that the rig also takes pedals really well, I use a an RC Booster to get some nice overdrive for more rock oriented stuff and it doesn't sound to shrill or weird or overly compressed.

A lot of people like the Telonics combos, I also like them but notice they have a tendency to get a little shrill, and still sound a little to solid state to me, plus they are crazy expensive! So my answer to the shrillness and too much solid state of using "The Rig" seems to be alleviating those problems, plus I'm saving around $700. That's my two cents! Can anyone report on the toneblock, quilter, or any other rack mount rigs?

Bill Cunningham · Post by **Bill Cunningham** » 26 Sep 2016 5:41 pm

I don't have a Rev but my SMS Classc has been into a Furlong SPLT for about 7 years now. No need to look further. YMMV.

Lyle Dent · Post by **Lyle Dent** » 26 Sep 2016 7:11 pm

If weight is not an issue I agree with Jack and the Mosvalve 500 or 1500. You can find them for reasonable price and work well with the Revelation.

Jeff Rady · Post by **Jeff Rady** » 27 Sep 2016 9:06 am

Are the mosvalves tube or solid state?

Bob Hempker · Post by **Bob Hempker** » 27 Sep 2016 9:22 am

I have an Octal V8 I use with a Stewart PA-1000. I'm totally happy with it. I use a profex II for my effects. No effects loop, I just go into the preamp, then to the profex, then to the power amp to the speakers. The speakers are just BW-15's in some cabinets made by Bob Ashley in Hollister, Mo.

Paul Honeycutt · Post by **Paul Honeycutt** » 28 Sep 2016 9:00 pm

Jeff Rady wrote:Are the mosvalves tube or solid state?

Solid state. The "MOS" is for MOSFET, a kind of transistor that to some sounds more tube like.

Tommy Boswell · Post by **Tommy Boswell** » 29 Sep 2016 5:22 am