Rick Academy (bakelite) low string problem
Moderator: Brad Bechtel
-
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 28 Apr 2016 10:28 am
- Location: Hawaii, USA
Rick Academy (bakelite) low string problem
Hello,
I'm new to the forum and have a 1948 Rick Academy (bakelite). There is a problem with a low string. When I place the steel on the strings, it doesn't touch the .036 string. Looks like the cut at the tuner end is too deep. Any suggestions for a fix?
Mahalo, Stuart
I'm new to the forum and have a 1948 Rick Academy (bakelite). There is a problem with a low string. When I place the steel on the strings, it doesn't touch the .036 string. Looks like the cut at the tuner end is too deep. Any suggestions for a fix?
Mahalo, Stuart
- Tom Pettingill
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: 23 Apr 2007 11:10 am
- Location: California, USA (deceased)
- Rick Aiello
- Posts: 4701
- Joined: 11 Sep 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Berryville, VA USA
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 28 Apr 2016 10:28 am
- Location: Hawaii, USA
-
- Posts: 180
- Joined: 29 Oct 2015 9:39 pm
- Location: Montana
- Keith Glendinning
- Posts: 378
- Joined: 9 Mar 2014 2:38 pm
- Location: United Kingdom
- Rick Barnhart
- Posts: 3046
- Joined: 23 May 2008 2:21 pm
- Location: Arizona, USA
Since you only want to do this once, the gauged file will help get the proper width and depth for the string gauge. .036 gauge nut file from Stew-Mac, $27. The correct advice from Tom Pettingill & Rick Aiello, priceless.
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe.
-
- Posts: 59
- Joined: 15 Aug 2013 10:47 am
- Location: Mississippi, USA
- Charlie McDonald
- Posts: 11054
- Joined: 17 Feb 2005 1:01 am
- Location: out of the blue
Thanks for the tip ( ), Keith. Fits the bill and budget.Keith Glendinning wrote:Nut files are expensive and if dropped they can break. I bought a set of Welders Tip Files from eBay as an alternative. They include a good range of sizes to match the string gauge that you intend to fit. Plus they're very cheap!
- George Piburn
- Posts: 2045
- Joined: 1 Jul 2003 12:01 am
- Location: The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
- Contact:
Welders Tip Cleaners to String Gauge conversions
I do agree with Tom and Rick about using Guitar Shop Files.
I looked up drill size conversions for those who choose to use the tip cleaners.
Hopefully this chart will help in future inquiries.
Inches Designation = String Gauge
.0135" #80
.0145" #79
.016" #78
.018" #77
.020" #76
.021" #75
.0225" #74
.024" #73
.025" #72
.026" #71
.028" #70
.0292" #69
.031" #68
.032" #67
.033" #66
.035" #65
.036" #64
.037" #63
.038" #62
.039" #61
.040" #60
.041" #59
.042" #58
.043" #57
.0465" #56
I looked up drill size conversions for those who choose to use the tip cleaners.
Hopefully this chart will help in future inquiries.
Inches Designation = String Gauge
.0135" #80
.0145" #79
.016" #78
.018" #77
.020" #76
.021" #75
.0225" #74
.024" #73
.025" #72
.026" #71
.028" #70
.0292" #69
.031" #68
.032" #67
.033" #66
.035" #65
.036" #64
.037" #63
.038" #62
.039" #61
.040" #60
.041" #59
.042" #58
.043" #57
.0465" #56
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel
-
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 28 Apr 2016 10:28 am
- Location: Hawaii, USA
- Tom Pettingill
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: 23 Apr 2007 11:10 am
- Location: California, USA (deceased)
Thats great Stuart, you will have that steel singing and playing great soon.
Low strings in the nut are no fun and one of my pet peeves. To compensate, you end up mashing down the bar which not only is uncomfortable, but throws the tuning balance amongst all the strings as a whole out of whack.
Like many things in life, there are many ways to get there. Triangle files and tip cleaners can get the job done, but there are compromises. Idealy, you want a string slot just a little larger than the string diameter with a round bottom. A triangle file makes a V shaped slot and while tip cleaners are round, they are not made for serious material removal and the small sizes are pretty flimsy. In a pinch, you could certainly use a triangle file to get you most of the way there and followed up with a tip cleaner to round out the bottom. A tedious adventure no doubt.
Another DIY method is to make some little saws / files out of feeler gauges. Take a file and round off the edges, then cut / file some teeth on the edge. Don't expect to be removing a lot of material with them, but they can work a little better than the flexing tip cleaners.
Its hard to justify spending $100 or more for a set of files that you only plan to use once. Years back when I made my very first steel, I explored all kinds of different options. It it did not take me long to pony up and get a proper set. In the end, there is nothing like having the proper tool for the job.
.
Low strings in the nut are no fun and one of my pet peeves. To compensate, you end up mashing down the bar which not only is uncomfortable, but throws the tuning balance amongst all the strings as a whole out of whack.
Like many things in life, there are many ways to get there. Triangle files and tip cleaners can get the job done, but there are compromises. Idealy, you want a string slot just a little larger than the string diameter with a round bottom. A triangle file makes a V shaped slot and while tip cleaners are round, they are not made for serious material removal and the small sizes are pretty flimsy. In a pinch, you could certainly use a triangle file to get you most of the way there and followed up with a tip cleaner to round out the bottom. A tedious adventure no doubt.
Another DIY method is to make some little saws / files out of feeler gauges. Take a file and round off the edges, then cut / file some teeth on the edge. Don't expect to be removing a lot of material with them, but they can work a little better than the flexing tip cleaners.
Its hard to justify spending $100 or more for a set of files that you only plan to use once. Years back when I made my very first steel, I explored all kinds of different options. It it did not take me long to pony up and get a proper set. In the end, there is nothing like having the proper tool for the job.
.
- Rick Aiello
- Posts: 4701
- Joined: 11 Sep 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Berryville, VA USA
- Contact:
I can't tell y'all how many Bakelite bridges and nuts I've fixed ... After folks took files to them ... To try and "level off" strings with varying gauges ...
Talk about a "Pet Peeve" ..
Some were so butchered ... I had to rebuild the entire bridge ... And nuts ...
The Devcon is much harder than Bakelite ... 85D on the Shore hardness scale ....
I suggest that if the bridges don't need to be slotted ... Don't !!!!
Some have to be done because of poorly drilled string thru holes ... Many don't align the strings directly over the poles ... And need a positioning slot ...
Most of the nuts were slotted for a major tuning ... So the big strings slots are way deep to deal for a C6 or C6/7 tuning ...
As stated, the Devcon is harder than Bakelite ... So a real U shaped luthier file is really your best choice ...
Why buy a highly admired vintage steel ... Take the time to rebuild the "flaws" brought on by years of abuse ... And not want to spend another $13 to $78 for a set of luthier files .. To do the job right ....
Just trying to help ...
Talk about a "Pet Peeve" ..
Some were so butchered ... I had to rebuild the entire bridge ... And nuts ...
The Devcon is much harder than Bakelite ... 85D on the Shore hardness scale ....
I suggest that if the bridges don't need to be slotted ... Don't !!!!
Some have to be done because of poorly drilled string thru holes ... Many don't align the strings directly over the poles ... And need a positioning slot ...
Most of the nuts were slotted for a major tuning ... So the big strings slots are way deep to deal for a C6 or C6/7 tuning ...
As stated, the Devcon is harder than Bakelite ... So a real U shaped luthier file is really your best choice ...
Why buy a highly admired vintage steel ... Take the time to rebuild the "flaws" brought on by years of abuse ... And not want to spend another $13 to $78 for a set of luthier files .. To do the job right ....
Just trying to help ...
Last edited by Rick Aiello on 9 May 2016 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Keith Glendinning
- Posts: 378
- Joined: 9 Mar 2014 2:38 pm
- Location: United Kingdom
Rick,
I agree fully with your comment that the nut "slot" has to be U shaped. As a retired Engineer I have to offer the following comment.
A nut file In the hands of an amateur can result in an botched slot in the nut rather than the desired vertical slot. Aditionally, as I said in an earlier post, nut files are an expensive, brittle item which is a "one size" only, whereas Welders Tip Files are cheap, readily available on eBay and if you have a micrometer or caliper gauge you'll find one to match almost EVERY string gauge. I have used them with Aluminium, Brass, Stainless Steel and also Buffalo Bone nuts.
If you are a professional builder, go with a full set of Nut Flies, but a "one off" job amateur can't justify the expense of these files. Just an observation from an enthusiastic amateur.
As an aside. When I was a Marine Engineer in the 1960's, we used Devcon for all kinds of repairs in the the Engine Room. It always gave the best results for all kinds of unusual conditions.
Keith.
I agree fully with your comment that the nut "slot" has to be U shaped. As a retired Engineer I have to offer the following comment.
A nut file In the hands of an amateur can result in an botched slot in the nut rather than the desired vertical slot. Aditionally, as I said in an earlier post, nut files are an expensive, brittle item which is a "one size" only, whereas Welders Tip Files are cheap, readily available on eBay and if you have a micrometer or caliper gauge you'll find one to match almost EVERY string gauge. I have used them with Aluminium, Brass, Stainless Steel and also Buffalo Bone nuts.
If you are a professional builder, go with a full set of Nut Flies, but a "one off" job amateur can't justify the expense of these files. Just an observation from an enthusiastic amateur.
As an aside. When I was a Marine Engineer in the 1960's, we used Devcon for all kinds of repairs in the the Engine Room. It always gave the best results for all kinds of unusual conditions.
Keith.
-
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 28 Apr 2016 10:28 am
- Location: Hawaii, USA
-
- Posts: 919
- Joined: 14 May 2008 2:59 pm
- Location: Illinois, USA
-
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 28 Apr 2016 10:28 am
- Location: Hawaii, USA
Not perfect but...
OK, so here are some photos of the job. Please note, I am happy with the results because it is better than it was. Also, it occurs to me now that we cannot expect it to be perfect because different string gauges will change what is presented.
Mahalo for every post. A hui hou
Bruddah
Mahalo for every post. A hui hou
Bruddah
-
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 28 Apr 2016 10:28 am
- Location: Hawaii, USA
Couple more Photos
continued...
-
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 28 Apr 2016 10:28 am
- Location: Hawaii, USA
Ps
I broke two strings putting it all back together so decided to replace them all. Here is something I probably should have done 1st. that is check to see if the correct guage strings are on for c6 tuning. Turns out the CEG strings were not even in the ball park.
I don't feel that bad, chock it up to newb. Any way just passing it on for others to avoid the problem. Turns out the repair I made came out purrrfect. Couldn't have done that if I tried.
And... I like the tone. Now if I can just stick with it and learn how to bar and pick and mute. It is fun.
Brudda
I don't feel that bad, chock it up to newb. Any way just passing it on for others to avoid the problem. Turns out the repair I made came out purrrfect. Couldn't have done that if I tried.
And... I like the tone. Now if I can just stick with it and learn how to bar and pick and mute. It is fun.
Brudda
- Tom Pettingill
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: 23 Apr 2007 11:10 am
- Location: California, USA (deceased)