Princeton Reverb with a JBL K110

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 3 May 2016 2:37 am

I had a seventies JBL K110 gathering dust on the shelf and decided to stick it in my '76 Princeton Reverb. It had never occurred to me to try it, thinking it would be way too bright.
Nope, it's perfect... The perfect recording amp for a vintage 60's steel tone. A match made in a honky tonk with my '75 PP! Surprisingly loud, too.
Any Princeton owners out there, hunt down a JBL K or D series 110 speaker.
A truly wonderful sound.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 3 May 2016 3:53 am

Yeah, JBLs in a Princeton or Deluxe are pretty cool. Right now I have a JBL MI 10" speaker in my 74 Princeton Reverb. I believe this speaker was made in the 80s - it has a cloth, as opposed to aluminum dust cover, so it's a bit different than the D/K110, but sounds pretty similar and great. Lots of presence but not harsh at all. I use that amp it for recording and low-volume live situations pretty often - a lot of the people I deal with really prefer it to anything else I have.

I have had various Princetons and Deluxes over the years with D or K JBLs, it's a very particular sound. I have 3 D120s that I put in and out of various amps as the need arises. The aluminum dust cover adds a bit of honk, but for a lot of stuff that's exactly what the doctor ordered.

Gibson Hartwell · Post by **Gibson Hartwell** » 3 May 2016 4:39 am

Oh man, Olli. You unleashed the beast! I have a '69 Princeton Reverb with a D110F that I play all the time. It's small, sounds great and fairly light. I like the Priniceton voicing a little better than the my Deluxe, but maybe that has more to do with these individual amps (component drift, etc.) rather than circuitry. The Princeton sounds just a little darker and warmer to me. It is perfect for whenever there are acoustic instruments on stage and volume is held low. I did a show recently with a singer/guitarist (Martha!) and another guitarist on a condenser mic. I faced the Princeton to the side and off axis to their mic and the and guy mic' me up---it worked out great with that low tube wattage. Those amps can stay quiet and still sound huge.

Enjoy your new discovery!

Patrick Rusert · Post by **Patrick Rusert** » 3 May 2016 4:49 am

Love my PR + k110! It really is excellent for quiet stages and recording. For fun/experimentation, I had mine converted to cathode bias and disabled the tremolo so I could use one of the knobs as a mid control. It is not clean past 7 any more, but from 4-6 on the volume is really nice. I'm sure I'll go back at some point...probably when I can afford a nice 70's PP.

Jonathan Lam · Post by **Jonathan Lam** » 3 May 2016 5:47 am

Was my main gigging amp until i got a Milkman.
The efficiency of the JBL is crucial for steel....

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 3 May 2016 8:54 am

Dave, does your JBL MI have only 4 mount holes? If so, how did you mount it into Fender 8-stud baffle? Drill more holes into the speaker or cut off studs?

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 3 May 2016 10:52 am

I sawed off four of the studs, years ago when I had a Celestion or something with four holes.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 3 May 2016 5:18 pm

Yeah, Tom - that MI speaker has only 4 holes. When I got the amp, it had only 4 speaker bolts showing, and I never looked further. I got a pair of these MI-10's several years back, the other's in a small Peavey Backstage. I had a chance to get a pair of K110's last year for some ridiculously low price and I stupidly let them go. It was a guitar show and I had other stuff on my mind.

But I just pulled the grill off that Princeton - it's velcroed on. I'm pretty sure that the dadoed-in baffle board is original. It had what I'm pretty sure is the original '74 Oxford speaker in it when I got it - and the baffle also has just 4 holes. I'm pretty sure the guy I got it from would never have replaced the baffle.

I honestly love JBLs in a small amp. I had an 8" JBL in a tweed champ at some point - it just brought it to life, IMO. I love those little single-ended amps for slide and lap steel guitar, but those wimpy-assed original 8" speakers just don't cut it, to me.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 3 May 2016 5:51 pm

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 3 May 2016 8:22 pm

Chris, I know it may be hard to understand if what you are used to is always playing un-mic'd with a loud country band in a honky tonk. I also have loud and clean amps like an old Session 400 and LTD 400, and an old '68 silverface Showman with the matching cab with a 15" JBL mounted on its original tone ring. These amps are loud enough to get over any guitar player I will work with (which, btw, is often me, since I usually double on guitar).

But I also play at much lower volumes sometimes. Small semi-acoustic units where a Deluxe/Vibrolux Reverb works fine for both guitar and steel, and even singer-songwriter things at very low volume in a bookstore or coffee shop where the Princeton actually may be pretty loud. Not to mention recording - if someone asks me to record, they more than likely want me to bring that Princton or a Deluxe. Not a lot of loud honky tonk country around here till you get well out of town - this is Penn State University. College students, Americana, singer-songwriter, blues, some rock and roll, country-rock, really old pre-1960s country, acoustic bluegrassy stuff, and so on.

I'll tell you one thing I rarely see here in central PA - a guitar player that plays a Telecaster through a NV 400. One of my friends Jim Wilson out of Huntingdon (30-40 miles away) does, and I'm not opposed to it. But most guitar players I know won't touch a clean solid-state amp. Mostly it's smaller-medium sized Fender amps - Deluxe, Vibrolux, Pro Reverb, Princetons - or Boogies, smaller Marshalls (e.g., 18-watters), or a boutiquey amp. A lot of times I use that cut-down Session 400 (w/ 12" Telonics speaker) with a Deluxe/Vibrolux/Princeton Reverb on top for guitar. A perfect pair. Or a real '57 Fender 4x10 tweed Bassman does it all.

Different strokes, man. If you play a Princeton Reverb at a small, quiet venue, it's not anemic at all. If you close-mic a small amp like this, it can sound huge. A lot of early, wild rock and roll was recorded using small amps because they didn't overwhelm the mics and they really do record well.

Ben Waligoske · Post by **Ben Waligoske** » 3 May 2016 11:13 pm

Dave, I'm pretty much with you but Chris, I know what you mean too. It's a classic "right tool" for the job question...

If the gig/stage requires (or more accurately, can accommodate) a big clean steel amp, I love having my Session 400 - dialed right, it's my favorite tone of any amp I've played steel through thus far. I also have a Henriksen Amplification 120 watt 1x12 with a Travis Toy speaker in it that's a great middle ground amp - punchy and lightweight...

But, if I can get away with it, I agree that a Princeton Reverb can have a really great old school tone to it for low-volume and recording purposes... My '78 currently has an Eminence Ragin Cajun in it (plus a beefed up OT) which adds headroom, but this talk of JBLs has me wondering...

Here's my question - what to people who double on steel/Tele a lot think of the JBL in a PR for 6-string? Dave? Does the JBL take too much of the low-wattage vibey-ness (for 6-string) of a PR out of the equation?

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 4 May 2016 2:37 am

Chris, there are, fortunately, other gigs than playing loud music for drunks

For those gigs I have the so called big guns.
I used the JBL/Princeton yesterday at a gig with a four piece, moderate volume.
Lead guitar, also a Princeton, bass and drummer who is not a volume moron.
No problems.

Gibson Hartwell · Post by **Gibson Hartwell** » 4 May 2016 7:40 am

Agree, the princeton would not suffice on an unmic'd, loud band stage. I would never describe a jbl loaded princeton as tinny though. It is a well balanced, full bodied, warm.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 4 May 2016 7:51 am

Buddy Charleton had one at home and told me it was his favorite sounding amp. But it wasn't loud enough for the gigs he was doing at the time.

I had a Princeton Reverb copy made by Headstrong that was perfect for most of my gigs around NYC at the time. It had KT88's in it and a 12" Fane. Really great amp.
A tech in Austin "corrected" it for me and it never sounded the same. Had it reverted to stock and sold it.

Now one of my main amps is a Milkman Mini with a 12" JBL and I love it.

I am pretty much off the amps over 50 years old from Fender these days. To much trouble once the innards start to crumble.

John Goux · Post by **John Goux** » 5 May 2016 10:31 am

"67 Princeton Reverb(stock Oxford) is my favorite for playing electric guitar around the house. For steel I prefer the BF Pro Reverb for practice and gigs. (C12n's)

I do love the Fender reverb sound, and prefer to have the reverb later in the chain, post preamp(where it is after overdrive or preamp gain). For that reason I like amps that have reverb in them.

I took the Princeton to some low volume steel gigs. I like the sound but I have one complaint about the reverb. When you hit the amp harder the ratio of the reverb increases, and when you lighten up, the reverb almost disappears.
Is that normal behavior for a Fender reverb?

John

Ben Waligoske · Post by **Ben Waligoske** » 24 May 2016 7:12 am

Hi John, just saw your post...

I've experienced similar behavior with my PR, and have also noticed that at low volume settings (3 or less) the reverb needs to be set much higher on the dial to be audible than when the amp is cranked up more. It's also deeper and richer when the amp is turned up, which stands to reason...

I'm no master tech, but if I'm not mistaken I believe this is because the Reverb signal is driven via the V2 stage of the preamp, so it makes sense why cranking things up results in the behavior you describe. There is actually a "Dynamic" setting on the new Boss RV6 that has a similar quality, though in reverse - softer notes trigger more reverb, while louder ones trigger a drier sound to cut more. Interesting to play with...