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Topic: How to use right knee levers |
Allen Sackfie
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 22 Apr 2016 5:25 pm |
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Hi everbody.I've been a long time follower of the forum and finally decided to sign up.I'm just getting to playing my Carter and trying to shake the rust out. I am getting the hang of the left knee levers but am wondering if someone could give me some examples of using the right knees either in forming chords or a simple phrase.Any help would be much appreciated.
Al |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 22 Apr 2016 5:29 pm
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Here's one I did a while back
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EdfmMfzvcI4
You didn't tell us what your right knees do, so we're guessing
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 22 Apr 2016 11:40 pm
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If the guitar has the standard factory setup, RKL lowers the 5th string B to Bb and RKR lowers the 2nd to D.
There are lots of great videos out there. The B to Bb change is often called the X lever and is also often found on a vertical lever so if you search for this you might have better luck.
One nice thing you can do is that if you start from the no pedals position and go 2 frets down and engage the B lower, you get a 9th, which is a nice passing chord that sounds nice going from the I to the IV (for example A to D). Same thing if you start rom the AB pedals down position and go 3 frets up to no pedals b lowered.
You can also get a nice little lick alternating between using the A pedal to raise the b string and the lever to lower it.
On some guitars (not sure about the Carter) you can use it in conjunction with the A pedal to raise the b string a semitone instead of a whole tone. For example, if you are playing a major chord with the AB pedals, the lever might give you the minor (same chord as going up a fret and using the E lowers but in some instances this could be easier/better).
I found this video very useful...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LV6BD3zHzo |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 1:08 am
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I always enjoy your videos, Lane. I've learned a lot from them. Thanks.
That run down on the minor key one is really pretty. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 2:13 am
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Allen, there are countless possibilities and opportunities with the right knee levers, actually they are part of standard everyday typical playing.
First, which Carter Steel do you have as the RKL on Carters lowering the 5th string is not standard on a 4 knee lever PRO model guitar. Carters generally will have the RKL raising string 1 a whole tone along with lowering 6 a whole tone or raising 7 a whole tone. These pulls would be considered standard on any new era Steel of which Carter is one.
Is it a Carter Starter or a Pro single neck model ?
I will go against the grain, which is normal for me...if you have the ability to change that RKL away from lowering 5 I would ! Going to raising 1 along with lowering 6/raising 7 would be in my opinion a better choice.
Also...
What does your RKR do ? It should lower 2 a half tone and a whole tone ( 2 moves) and perhaps lower 9 a half tone as well.
Once we all have a better understanding of what guitar you have as well as what the RK configs are we can all chime in and offer countless opinions. 
regarding lowering 5, yes it is a good change and functional but my take is add it AFTER you have the other changes mentioned. Lowering 5 is generally the 5th knee lever option on an E9th Steel. There are many ways to skin the cat on those 5th string lower phrases without a K Lever.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 23 Apr 2016 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 2:50 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
First, which Carter Steel do you have as the RKL on Carters lowering the 5th string is not standard on a 4 knee lever PRO model guitar.
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Good point - I was talking about the Carter Starter
https://www.steelguitar.com/manuals/CSOWNERSMANUAL.pdf
A friend of mine has one and I was suprised the B lower was one of the 4. |
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Allen Sackfie
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 5:01 am
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Thanks to everyone for the quick response and all the help.I will take my time and go everthing that was said and all the videos.I am always impressed by the way musicians on this forum are willing to share the knowledge they have and don't try to hide trade secrets.
Thanks again everybody |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 5:07 am
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The most important question you can answer is--do you have a Carter Starter or a Carter pro model?
All responses have to be tailored to the answer.
Also, just so that you understand, there is a lot of commonality to steel guitar setups but there are at least two different common ways of setting up knee levers (and in the real world, there are many other variants). So saying left or right is less informative than you might wish. Saying the "E lower lever" etc. tells us much more. |
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Allen Sackfie
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 11:05 am
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| Hi Tony, Jeff and Jon: I have the Carter Pro that raises 1 and lowers 6. Thanks for the help, |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 11:50 am
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Lowering the 6th string a whole tone on one knee lever. while also lowering strings 4 and 8a half tone on another, will give you the V chord from the pedals up position without moving the bar.
In my opinion, this isn't necessary. You can also get the same chord by moving the bar down 2 frets and using the A+F position. I think lowering the 5th string from B to Bb is a more valuable change and a better use of the knee lever.
I had the 6th string lower at one time, and removed it.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Ron Kassof
From:
Las Vegas, NV, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 1:42 pm
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| Not to hijack (maybe not anyway),What's the difference between the 6th string lower and a 7th string raise changes? |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 1:49 pm
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knee lever positions are not universal, so don't
mean anything. knee lever function means everything.
this will make sense later on. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 2:07 pm
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Some people raise the F# a whole step and most do only a half. While one could do everything you'd do with the whole step raise of 7 that you do with the whole step drop of 6, you'd have to think a bit different
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 2:25 pm
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| Allen Sackfie wrote: |
| Hi Tony, Jeff and Jon: I have the Carter Pro that raises 1 and lowers 6. Thanks for the help, |
on RKL ?
Plus lower 2 and 9 on the RKR ?
Just trying to get a feel of your guitar and it's configuration.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 23 Apr 2016 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 2:26 pm
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Mike said;
"In my opinion, this isn't necessary."
I respectfully disagree Mike! They are two different sounds. Both useful
JB
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 2:33 pm
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The 6th string lower can be and IS a fundamental pull on the E9th. It is part of my standard vocabulary. Not necessary for some but perhaps mandatory for others.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 2:45 pm
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Unless you are really eager spend time changing the setup of your guitar instead of playing it, messing around with the undersides to suit someone else's personal thinking is not well advised.
I'll leave the advice on how to use those changes to people who will do a better job demonstrating it than I can do but really, unless something is way out of whack--work with what you've got, how you've got it (which is what you asked to begin with, not whether you should have those changes on your guitar). |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 4:01 pm
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| Jon Light wrote: |
Unless you are really eager spend time changing the setup of your guitar instead of playing it, messing around with the undersides to suit someone else's personal thinking is not well advised.
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yep... 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 4:09 pm
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So let's be clear:
Your guitar raises and lowers 4 and 8 on the left knee,
Raises 1 to G and drop 6 to F# on RKL,
Lowers 2 to D and C# and drops 9 to C#
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 23 Apr 2016 4:52 pm
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I should have written that I think that dropping the 6th string isn't absolutely necessary. I agree that it can be useful.
I've found that many (although not all,) of the things that can be done with it, can also be done without it, by moving the bar and using other pedals and strings. My subjective opinion is that I prefer to lower the 5th string.
One of the beautiful things about this instrument is that there are so many options regarding setups. We can all customize our steels to fit our individual needs. And nobody is right or wrong. It's a matter of personal preference.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 24 Apr 2016 1:56 am
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The Pedal Steel guitar is full of redundancy and quite on purpose. We can indeed move to another fret board position and use different pedals/strings to acquire the same "phrase or notes" but it may no longer be the same tonality, you know, the stuff that grabs our attention.
Yes , true, we can play the exact same thing somewhere else ..but..why doesn't it sound the same ? 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 24 Apr 2016 3:10 am
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Tony, it's true, moving the bar and using different pedals and/or strings really does sound a little different than using a knee lever to get something similar, but not identical.
But so what? The audience won't even notice the difference, much less care. It's all a matter of what we, the players, want. It's completely subjective. We all set up our guitars the way we prefer, and we call play a little differently.
It's all good.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 24 Apr 2016 6:17 am
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Yes Mike it is all good
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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