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Topic: GFI E9th 4th Pedal 6 string G# to F# Problems |
Scott McCumber
From:
New Braunfels, TX
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Posted 21 Mar 2016 3:14 pm |
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I am trying to fix my E9th 4th Pedal to drop the G# to an F# and I can't get it to drop that far. Every time I tighten the nut it drops the open tuning and I tune it back up and then it raises the pedal tuning to G. I keep tuning until I can't tighten the nylon nut but its always the same. Just can't get a G# to F# change. Any help would be appreciated.  |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 21 Mar 2016 3:30 pm
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It's a problem with not enough travel. You probably just need to adjust the pedal stop so that it can pull the lower finger a longer distance.
I don't remember if GFI's have split tuning screws at the neck, but if so, make sure that is not preventing adequate changer finger travel. Also inspect the changer for broken string ball end or other debris limiting the movement.
Do you use it as the so called Franklin change?...Is this a new change you are just starting to use or a new problem that's just developed out of your normal set-up?
Adjust so that the tuning nut doesn't affect your open note, adjust the pedal stop for more travel and you should be able to then tune to the F# with the nylon nut.
Last edited by Jerry Overstreet on 22 Mar 2016 1:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 Mar 2016 3:33 pm
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What you have is what we call "overtuning".
That's when tuning the change eliminates all the slack, so that it becomes unbalanced.
Back the nylon nut off until it's just about doing nothing, and it wouldn't hurt to back off the B pedal tuning nut too (although that's HIGHLY unlikely to be causing problems here).
If it won't tune up to a whole tone drop, you'll have to either:
Adjust the knee lever travel stop to give you more travel (easiest, but some guitars have fixed stops), or;
Adjust the rodding of that knee lever. You'll need to take it to one hole farther away from the cross-shaft on the bellcrank will be the easiest.
Let us know if, as it gets near the F#, it starts raising again, or if you see the raising scissor moving inward. That's a different problem, but usually easily fixed.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Scott McCumber
From:
New Braunfels, TX
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Posted 21 Mar 2016 7:11 pm
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| Ok so the very last thing you said was the scissor moves forward is that the bottom lower mechanism? The bottom lower does move inward as I tighten the nut. I will work on it trying all the advice and will advise tomorrow. Thank you for the info |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 Mar 2016 7:41 pm
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The bottom plate is supposed to move inward. The upper plate should stay put, unless things have gone all wrong.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 8:53 am GFI 4th pedal 6 string G# to F# problem
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| I play and work on a GFI Ultra, (My steel has no split tuning but check for this on yours first as the problem). The pull rod rod may be in the wrong hole in the Bell crank. Not enough travel. When the steel is upside down to work on be sure the rod is attached in hole 6 counting up from the cross rod on the bell crank, This will give max. travel on the rod. The rod is easy to change if needed. Just loosen the hex set screw in the brass sleeve bell crank pivot, Slide the rod out, Remove the brass pivot, And put in 6th hole in bell crank, Reinsert the rod, Insert rod till tuning nut touches changer finger, Tighten the set screw. Good Luck and Happy Steelin. |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 11:52 am
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| What you need to do is adjust the set screw where the pedal rod meets the body (can't think of the actual name of this piece right off). A few turns should give it sufficient travel. Then, you will likely want to adjust the pedal rod height for feel. I've had to do this for a few of my changes. For some reason GFI's don't handle whole-step lowers very well. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 1:19 pm
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| Jeff Harbour wrote: |
| For some reason GFI's don't handle whole-step lowers very well. |
That's right - it can be a bit "tight", but the Ultra can lower even a wound 6th all the way if adjusted as you and others have described. The lower-return spring may also have to be slackened a little and pull-rod put in lowest hole on changer, to get a perfectly stable full lower and avoid "reversing-to-raise" action.
Don't know about latest versions, but my Ultra needs the addition of a "split-rod" since there are no "split-screws". |
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Scott McCumber
From:
New Braunfels, TX
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Posted 22 Mar 2016 6:43 pm
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| I want to thank everyone for their input on my question. I can't believe how simple the solution was. I swapped strings and when I went to a unwound .020 from a wound .022 the change was no problem. I learned something new. |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2016 3:50 am
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| Wow, I learned something new as well! I would have thought the wound string would've lowered easier... guess not. Glad it worked out for you. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 Mar 2016 5:14 am
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The CORE of a string dictates how much changer travel is required to make the change, with the thinner core needing more travel and thicker core needing less.
Plain strings are, of course, all core.
A .022 plain string has a core of .022, while the wound one will have either a core of .008 and a winding of .007 or a core of .010 and a winding of .006 and I'm betting on the .008
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 23 Mar 2016 5:19 am
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| Jeff Harbour wrote: |
| Wow, I learned something new as well! I would have thought the wound string would've lowered easier... guess not. |
"Easier" in the "less force needed" meaning, yes. But, a wound 6th string requires a much longer throw than a plain one.
In my experience with a GFI Ultra keyless, the long throw needed for lowering a 22Wound 6th string a full note and having a "tunable split" rod on it - necessary for a perfect "G" note split, is right at the edge, or ever so slightly beyond, what a "factory set-up" GFI can handle. The lower-return spring scrapes against the lower-scissor when I lower the 6th string fully, and I had to rotate that spring 180 degrees and hook it up again to change how it bended when stretched and thereby making sure it didn't catch on the scissor. No big deal once done and adjusted right since the slight scraping-noise doesn't reach the PU, but nevertheless not ideal.
I took the time to set up my GFI for a wound 6th because I prefer the sound of a wound there on any PSG, but I'd recommend a "tight" (less stretchy / shorter throw) type of string - like Jagwire or LiveSteelString - for those who want it to work flawlessly on a GFI. |
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Will VanHoye
From:
West Virginia USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2016 6:12 am G F I E 9th 4th pedal 6 string G#TO F# lower
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| Hey Scott why not add the 6th string drop to your Left knee Right I raise 1 a whole. 2 a 1/2 with my L K R and lower my 6th a whole. hope this may be of some help to you keep steeling ... Thanks Will VanHoye. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2016 9:14 am
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| Scott McCumber wrote: |
| I want to thank everyone for their input on my question. I can't believe how simple the solution was. I swapped strings and when I went to a unwound .020 from a wound .022 the change was no problem. I learned something new. |
Originally, most players used a wound 6th string. When the G# to F# lower became popular, people switched to a plain string because it was too long of a pull on the wound one. Today, the plain string is standard, but some old-timers still prefer the wound.
Also, some student models like the Carter Starter work better with a wound 6th string.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2016 11:59 am
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I guess I've always had the mistaken perception that wound strings are "stretchier"... and, therefore, easier to raise or lower.
Something should have occured to me... Have you ever tried to bend a note on a nylon string guitar? It doesn't change pitch! That should've told me that the "stretchier" the string, the LESS it changes pitch. |
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