I was wrong about ribbons !

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 29 Nov 2015 9:58 am

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/005133.html

I recently had a chance to A/B my favorite mic for steel ( U47 FET from Lawson) with a Royer 121 ribbon and I am now a ribbon convert.
That mic sounds amazing ! Clear and articulate with a really nice full yet open sounding midrange. I still love my 47FET but the Royer has a thing and it is nice.
My prejudice about ribbons was unfounded.
I am using a Neve portico 5012 for a pre amp. Super sweet combination.

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 29 Nov 2015 5:36 pm

If you look at buying one, you should check out the Shiny Box ribbons--I have put one of the them and a 121 side by side on faders and have guitar players choose their favorite and it's the Shiny Box about 80% of the time (and half the price!)

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 1 Dec 2015 5:47 am

I already bought a Royer. It's pretty awesome.

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 1 Dec 2015 2:32 pm

Can't go wrong with that! I use them too all the time

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 3 Dec 2015 4:57 pm

John, could it be extended high end that the Shiny Box has that makes it tantalizing for guitarists? What about the 101, do you have one of those? The high frequencies are a little more present than in the 121.

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 5 Dec 2015 8:21 am

Cascade Fatheads work pretty good for guitar too.
I put a Shure 57 about 1" away from the grill at a little bit of an angle.
Then I place the Fathead about a foot away from the grill.

I haven't tried this with steel guitar yet.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 5 Dec 2015 8:37 am

I ended up preferring the Fatheads I have to the Shinybox, but they're all great bang-for-buck. I would like to try some of the active ribbons that are out now.

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 5 Dec 2015 12:44 pm

What trannies are in the Fatheads? I have the lastest ribbon motors from SB and Cinemag trannies...

Have not tried the 101, just have the 121. Also have an AEA R84 I like a lot. I also took in a couple of active Samsons on a trade a while back, but have not spent a lot of time with them...

Les Cargill · Post by **Les Cargill** » 5 Dec 2015 12:50 pm

Anybody looked at the Cloudlifter for use with dynamics/ribbons? Looks interesting.

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 7 Dec 2015 8:53 pm

Les Cargill wrote:Anybody looked at the Cloudlifter for use with dynamics/ribbons? Looks interesting.

Yes! I bough it from Cascade Microphones.
It does a great job of boosting the signal for my Fathead mic.
I also use it with my RE-20.

All I could find on their web site is package deals which include the Cloud Lifter.
They sold them separately when I bought mine:

http://www.cascademicrophones.com/casca ... deals.html

David Winfrey · Post by **David Winfrey** » 13 Feb 2016 11:47 pm

The Royer R-121s have their reputations for a reason. A lot of people don't realize that they have a figure 8 pickup pattern and the front and back sides sound different. I think the back side is a little warmer.
They also sound fabulous for drums and in front of horns.
If anyone is interested, I have a R-121 for sale (due to financial reasons) in the orginal box, wooden case and all case candy for a resonable price.
Wish I could keep it... such a sweet mic!
You made a good choice... Royers are fantasic!! Enjoy )
David

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 24 Feb 2016 11:19 am

I picked up a used Royer-121 and an AKG C-414 XLS from the same individual for a crazy price. I was originally interested in comparing both, since I've always liked the way the 414 sounded on tube guitar amps.

My observation at this time is that, while I haven't fallen in love with either of the mics individually, combined they sound fantastic!

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 25 Feb 2016 6:00 am

Mike, you have 2 of the what could be concidered the most essential mics in any recording studio. Both are amazing !

If you have a good cardioid mic you can put the 414 on omni and try out mid side mic recording. Very cool thing to check out.

The Royer 121 is taking me some time to get to know. So far I use it every chance I get because the basic sound is so clear, detailed and uniquely rich. It seems like there is so much there though when it comes to placement. The room and floor seem to mean more to the sound than other mics.

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 25 Feb 2016 5:40 pm

We did some work for Royer a few years ago. Made the equipment that put the crinkle in the ribbons. Do you suppose I could get a deal on a mike? No way.
Anyway, the guy from Royer said the mikes were for orchestras and bands and not for vocals, so I didn't press it.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 2 Mar 2016 6:07 am

Bob Hoffnar wrote: If you have a good cardioid mic you can put the 414 on omni and try out mid side mic recording. Very cool thing to check out.

Bob, that is a great technique that I've been playing around with. The best way to get a BIG sound. I'm using the 414 with an SM57, but I have a few AKG cardioid mics that I'll have to dig out and play with.

My Royer needs a new ribbon, unfortunately.

werner althaus · Post by **werner althaus** » 7 Apr 2016 7:36 pm

You want to put the 414 to figure 8, not Omni to use with a cardioid for MS recording. Or just use the Royer which is a figure eight, but Cardioid and Omni doesn't make MidSide, it makes something but for true MS you need a figure eight as Side mic. Also don't forget to decode properly, mid mic centered and the Side mic (figure eight) split to 2 channels, panned hard left and hard right with the one on the right phase reversed. All super easy to do ITB (in the box/ computer)

Edit: forgot to mention that you need to point the S mic sideways with the front facing left (from the mics POV). The cool thing about MS is that you can control the image width AFTER you recorded the audio.
Another cool technique to try with figure 8 ribbons (or any figure 8 mics) is Bluemlein stereo, two figure 8 mics, 90 degrees to each other and 45 degrees off axis of the source. Very good spacial representation and full mono compatibility, just like MS.

Mark Wayne · Post by **Mark Wayne** » 7 Apr 2016 10:55 pm

Has anybody A B'd the 121's with the 122v's? Are the 122v's worth that extra $ when it comes to the tone?

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 10 Apr 2016 8:41 pm

Werner, you are right about the figure eight. Thanks for the correction. I do use the Royer and 414 on figure 8.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 12 Apr 2016 6:10 am

Bob, what kind of distance are you putting between the mic and speaker, and where do you like the Royer facing?

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 12 Apr 2016 6:19 am

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Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 18 May 2016 7:46 am

I am now hooked on the old "bird cage" ribbon mics from Western Electric and Altec. All the steel parts on my record were recorded with them and they sound wonderful. Don't think I can afford one of my own, though!

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 13 Jul 2016 2:24 pm

Ribbon mics were the first high-quality mics in the early days of radio, when dynamics were poor and condensers were yet to appear. They have a naturally clean transient response. When I worked for the BBC we had a bunch of pre-war ones that I liked to use on the trumpets in a big band. I had access to all the Neumann and AKG types; they were fine for the trombones and saxes, but the ribbons really caught that sawtooth wave!

Also I got a really expensive French horn sound by putting one near the floor beside the player's chair, the figure eight looking up at the rim of the bell and down at the boards. A touch of reverb and you're in Symphony Hall! And great separation, because the waist of the pickup pattern points all round the studio.

Godfrey Arthur · Post by **Godfrey Arthur** » 12 Oct 2016 8:02 am

Les Cargill wrote:Anybody looked at the Cloudlifter for use with dynamics/ribbons? Looks interesting.

There are other similar units.There are inline units made by another company. Some mics like the Shure SM7 need this booster not unless you have a preamp that supplies 60db of gain. In fact the SM7 can be seen on ebay being sold together with the Cloudlifter.

The SM7 is a go-to mic used not only as a DJ mic for radio broadcast but in rock and rap genres it is a favorite.

In fact Shure endorses the Cloudlifter for use with the SM7.

A ribbon would benefit from these boosters.

Triton Audio makes the Fethead

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 28 Oct 2016 8:32 am

I got to record yesterday at a local studio and the engineer put a Royer R-122 on my Twin (set with no reverb), ran that into a Telefunken V72 tube preamp, and then used an actual plate reverb (3' by 6') on the signal. The steel sure sounded good. I'm hopeful for the final mix.

He placed the mic much closer to the speaker than Bob's picture shows.

Godfrey Arthur · Post by **Godfrey Arthur** » 29 Oct 2016 5:58 am

I got to record yesterday at a local studio and the engineer put a Royer R-122 on my Twin (set with no reverb), ran that into a Telefunken V72 tube preamp, and then used an actual plate reverb (3' by 6') on the signal. The steel sure sounded good. I'm hopeful for the final mix.

The V72 with its tubes helped out a lot I surmise.

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