Hello, New to Lap Steel

[Mike OMalley]

Hello

I'm a semi pro musician playing bass and guitar. I gig mostly on upright and electric bass in the DC area, jazz, rock soul stuff. I play a lot of jazz guitar and am reasonably proficient at it. I'm a historian for a living.

I also build instruments and have a large collection of spare parts--wood, bridges, pickups, tuners--from various projects over the years. So I decided to build a lap steel to make use of some of the stuff. i had never payed a lap steel and knew nothing about it.

I made a very crude one out of some scrap cherry and walnut


It used threaded bar stock for the bridge and nut. The strings attach to nails driven into the end and ground smooth. Used an old P90 for the pickup, and after some searching tuned it to C6.

Wow! This is fun! the western swing licks just come flying off the board! Wow. I feel like I'm in the Spade Cooley band!

I liked it so much I decided to build another, a little more refined, out of pine. Added a lexan fretboard backpainted dark blue, with white




This one has a Lace Alumitone humbucker size pickup, and the bridge and nut are made out of brass rail from our G scale Garden railway

I banged out a clip of me playing it:

http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/omalley/rusty%20steel.mp3

Please keep in mind I had never played a lap steel ever till two weeks ago!


So I have some general questions.

Both of these have pretty wide string spacing, almost two inches. Is that normal? Sometimes I think i would be better off with something more narrow. Would it be easier or harder to manage slants? Is there a general norm?

Scale length--both of these are 25 inches, because I had a 25 inch fret scale already, and I thought higher string tension would be better. It seems to me that maybe that's longer than typical? Here again is there a general rule?Seems like there might be real advantages to a shorter scale length.

Bars: I bought a Stevens style bar at Guitar Center. It sounds good. Then I bought a Dunlop Jerry Byrd bullet bar from a local dealer. It's better in many ways--lighter, so a little faster, and I can do slants more easily. That little indentation on the end for the thumb is awesome! The tone is a little better with the Stevens bar I think, and also the Jerry Byrd bar is just a little short. So is there a relationship between weight and tone? I'm thinking "heavier equals better tone," and also "heavier equals harder to make quick moves." I've ordered one of the latchLake bullet bars. I keep thinking I want a bar that combines the two styles. Is there such a thing?

Anyway hello, thanks for letting me yack, all suggestions welcome and appreciated.

[Larry Phleger]

Great job. I can't believe you have only been playing lap steel for 2 weeks.

[Stephen Abruzzo]

Both of these have pretty wide string spacing, almost two inches. Is that normal? Sometimes I think i would be better off with something more narrow. Would it be easier or harder to manage slants? Is there a general norm?

Scale length--both of these are 25 inches, because I had a 25 inch fret scale already, and I thought higher string tension would be better. It seems to me that maybe that's longer than typical? Here again is there a general rule?Seems like there might be real advantages to a shorter scale length.

Bars: I bought a Stevens style bar at Guitar Center. It sounds good. Then I bought a Dunlop Jerry Byrd bullet bar from a local dealer. It's better in many ways--lighter, so a little faster, and I can do slants more easily. That little indentation on the end for the thumb is awesome! The tone is a little better with the Stevens bar I think, and also the Jerry Byrd bar is just a little short. So is there a relationship between weight and tone? I'm thinking "heavier equals better tone," and also "heavier equals harder to make quick moves." I've ordered one of the latchLake bullet bars. I keep thinking I want a bar that combines the two styles. Is there such a thing?

Anyway hello, thanks for letting me yack, all suggestions welcome and appreciated.

Nice steels and nice playing.

My steels all have 3/8" string spacing, so that comes out to 1.875" on a 6-string guitar. Some people like that string spacing. Some like less but not too much less because that it makes picking problematic along with performing slants too.

25" scale would be considered long scale. I think Asher makes their steels with that scale. Short scale is 22.5". Personally, I prefer 24". Long scale typically has better sustain. It's easier to do slants up near the nut with short scale.

A heavier bar means better sustain (given the same material), not better tone. Lighter bars can be maneuvered more quickly just d/t weight.

The SP1 may be more to your liking.
http://www.shubb.com/sp/

Tone bars can be made with all different diameters, lengths, materials and shapes.

I have bars in stainless steel, brass, space-age polymer, powder-coated steel, stoneware and lead-crystal glass.

Hope this helps.

[Joe Elk]

Nice building and playing Mike.
Joe Elk

[Mike OMalley]

Thank you all!


I'm thinking I'm probably a bullet-bar guy, as It's just too hard to do some slants with the Stevens bar. For example I'm working on Honky Tonkin and there's a lot of use for a two note slant angled towards the bridge, and it'a really hard to hit with the Stevens bar. Does the Shubb bar have a thumb indentation?

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[Stephen Abruzzo]

The Shubb bar doesn't have a thumb indentation...but it's classified as a Dobro bar and so is "easier" to hold on to because of the "indentations" on the top and the sides.

[Andy Volk]

Hey Mike, what you've achieved in two weeks puts many of us to shame! I would definitely recommend a bullet bar. You have more control for almost every single steel guitar technique except perhaps Jerry Douglas-style rapid hammer/pull-off licks.

22.5" scales are optimal for slant bar playing while longer scale generally have more sustain and easier playing for harmonics. String tension and action are a very personal thing so trying various gauges is the best way to see what personally suits you. Lighter gauges on strings 1-3 will facilitate behind-the-bar bending technique.

But most important, jump into the steel pool - the water's fine!

[David Matzenik]

There is another metaphor about a duck taking to water which might be appropriate also. Mike, you are on your way, but I am guessing you were always something of a renaissance man.

[Steven Pearce]

"What they said!"
Hey Mike, you 'get it' both in how you build it and play it. Very cool.
Steve.

[Steven Pearce]

One more thing...the Shubbs are great bars, the SP2 is well balanced and a
great Reso bar. I use an SP1 for the lap steel... It has a nice combo bullet nose but long, made for 8 strings. So I cut some length an really scooped the nose. It's really easy to get moving with
Enjoy

[Tom Pettingill]

Nicely done Mike! ... looks like the hook is set and you have been caught

Good advice above. On scale length, string spacing, and how it affects playability is all about geometry. Luckily for the math challenged like myself, John Ely has a handy page where you can plug in your numbers in and see how they stack up. Spoiler alert, a longer scale can be fairly slant friendly as long as you don't bunch the strings up too much. http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/instrument ... angles.php

[Mike OMalley]

Nicely done Mike! ... looks like the hook is set and you have been caught

Good advice above. On scale length, string spacing, and how it affects playability is all about geometry. Luckily for the math challenged like myself, John Ely has a handy page where you can plug in your numbers in and see how they stack up. Spoiler alert, a longer scale can be fairly slant friendly as long as you don't bunch the strings up too much. http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/instrument ... angles.php

Wow that's a cool site!

I'm already thinking maybe I want an eight string....

[Mike OMalley]

Well I've gotten a small collection of bars, and none of them has made me magically better. Ain't it a shame how that works? I've got a Dunlop Jerry Byrd, a Dunlop 920 (too big) a latch lake "broz-o-phonic," and a silica sound 113, which is too light, in addition to the Stevens -style I had before. I like the Latch Lake the best i think


Below is a version of "If I had you" (just the head) played on my homemade lap steel and a home made guitar and bass


http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/omalley/steelen.mp3









You would think years of playing upright bass and fretless electric would give me good intonation, but no!

[George Piburn]

GeorgeBoards always recommends Jim Burden Bullet Bars.