Pawn Shop: 1975 Blackfaced Twin Rev (Latest Upgrades)

Don Mogle · Post by **Don Mogle** » 11 Jan 2016 5:24 pm

Need some advice...

I found a Fender Twin Reverb with two 12" Celestion Vintage 30 speakers at a Pawn Shop. They'll take $500 plus tax. I can't tell the year it was made, but it is a silver face amp. Is this a good buy?

The amp needs some love. The grille clothe is ripped and has issues...should be replaced. But not ridiculously bad. The chassis looks clean with no obvious issues. The amp has Sovtek 6L6 tubes and some various other 12AX7s, etc.

I tested the amp with a guitar and it sounds pretty good. All the functions seem to work properly, but I think the pots could use some lubricating.

Please advise.

Thanks in Advance,

Don

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 11 Jan 2016 5:36 pm

Buy it. The grille cloth is cheap and easy, and the amp is solid.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 12 Jan 2016 6:06 am

I haven't seen a working Twin that cheap in quite a while. Master Volume or no?

The late 60's early 70's pre master volume SF Twins are going for $800 and up (mostly up) around Austin. I see mid-70s Twins that are a bit rough but working going for 650-700.

I paid $900.00 for a nice, clean, well maintained '69 drip-edge Twin last year, and felt 'ok' about the price.

Pics?

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 12 Jan 2016 7:04 am

Pawn Shop/ Fender Twin: These words make me cry. Why? I had a friend that lives 90 minutes from me. He said he had just bought a Twin at a pawn shop for $150.00 in good shape and working order. I asked him if he would consider selling it and he said he would let me have it for what he paid for it. I was on cloud nine and couldn't wait to go pick it up. I called him to make arrangements to pick it up and he said it had developed some popping sounds. I said no problem, I want it anyway. He then devastated me the news that he took it back and got a refund. I told him to call that pawn shop immediately and tell them to hold it for me and I would come and pick it up. He called me back and said they had already sold it.

Crying Time everytime I think about it.

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 12 Jan 2016 9:38 am

With the street price of a new Twin Reverb at $1450 and up, I can't imagine why anyone would not opt for a nice old silver face. Prices in Denver are similar to what Bill Terry quoted.

Jim Kennedy · Post by **Jim Kennedy** » 12 Jan 2016 12:16 pm

Sounds like a good price. I picked up a quad reverb a few years back in the SF bay area for $650 when ratty twins were going $800 to $1000. The quad is a twin with 4 12's. Sounds good to me though a bit heavy. Planning to put the chassis in its own cabinet. Fender also made a Super Six, 6 10's. These can be found at a good price because nobody wants to lug around that much weight.

Don Mogle · Post by **Don Mogle** » 12 Jan 2016 7:28 pm

Hi Everyone!

OK...I pulled the trigger and got the amp for just over $500 out the door. I tested it again before I purchased it and it sounded great. It has a real nice in-your-face tube presence...just something huge sounding, warm, and wonderful about this amp!

This amp has a Master Volume knob on the right side that pulls out. It's a Silver Face with 100 watts of glorious tube power. I'm not sure of the year, but the chasis was stamped with B-66586 on the right side. The reverb works good. The knobs work well too, although the volume knob on the left channel is somewhat scratchy...but works OK. The speakers look relatively new and the pictures shown below do not do it justice.

I'd like replace the grill cloth and repair some tears in the tolex. Anyone have any small pieces of tolex they could sell me? I also need a top back door as this was missing (shouldn't be hard to make one).

Does anyone know if the grill cloth is attached to the baffle or is it held on with Velcro (did they even have Velcro back in the 70s?)

I'd appreciate any help dating this amp. Also, there is a jack on the right side of the amp that's not marked. What is this for?

OK...here are some pictures:

[

Mike Flick · Post by **Mike Flick** » 13 Jan 2016 2:26 am

The amp looks pretty clean. Think you got a good deal. Of all your questions I can only answer one: Velcro was indeed around in the seventies! Don't know if Fender used it though.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 13 Jan 2016 6:22 am

..just something huge sounding, warm, and wonderful about this amp!

Yeah buddy!!... that's what I love about Twins for steel.

If you believe this:
http://www.ggjaguar.com/fendamp6.htm

That's a '75 or '76 which seems about right based on the pics.

Earlier Twins have a screwed on baffle/grill, via screws through cleats on the inside of the cabinet. The entire baffle with speakers attached, comes out as one piece. These later ones have a glued in baffle and the grill is attached externally. This thread says it's likely velcro:

http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewt ... 4&p=582261

I'm also curious about that jack (it looks like a switch?) on the front panel, right on the logo. It's obviously not original, does it do anything?

Bill Sinclair · Post by **Bill Sinclair** » 13 Jan 2016 6:31 am

Yes, the grill cloth on that particular amp is on its own separate baffle - attached by Velcro. You can pry it off with a flat blade screwdriver.

My 2 cents:

I don't think I'd bother replacing the original cloth, just try pushing the material back together from behind where the holes are. Grill cloth is fairly cheap ($20?) but getting it as tight and straight as the factory is difficult. Maybe I'm just bad at it. Also, vinyl patches are going to stand out more than the nicks do. I'd just glue back what has separated and put a little black paint where the wood has been exposed.

The added switch on the front is unfortunate but that's why you were able to get a great amp at a great price. Can you tell if it does anything? At some point you may want to have a tech check it out to see if it's a safe/reasonable mod. Maybe have him add a bias pot if that hasn't already been done. These amps only had a balance pot originally.

Looks like a great deal but if you start spending a bunch on cosmetics, it won't be anymore. Maybe accept that it's a beater and enjoy it as such. Again, that's what I would do - it's your amp and you should do what will make you happiest with it.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 13 Jan 2016 6:55 am

+1 on leaving the original vinyl and grill alone and just 'repairing' as you can. I've seen far worse. Some would even say that may further devalue whatever vintage value it has.

That said, it's not like you'd be routing a '52 Tele for a humbucker if you did..

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 13 Jan 2016 9:38 am

She's a beauty and wears her age well. Your call, but I would not bother with much in the way of cosmetics. I wonder if the switch on the front could be a 1/2 power switch - a common mod for TRs.

Tommy Mc · Post by **Tommy Mc** » 13 Jan 2016 10:32 am

Nice catch! For the rips and tears on the black Tolex there are a couple of tricks I've used. Glue back any pieces that are torn away...like the one above the courtesy plug on the rear. Then fill in any gaps with either of two methods. One is to use a product called "Liquid Tape" It applies with a brush (like nail polish) and dries slightly rubbery and matte black. The other way takes a little more "art" but you can mix some black craft paint with 5-minute epoxy. Dab it on with a toothpick. If you catch it toward the end of the setup time, you can simulate the dimpled texture of the Tolex. It dries to a glossy black.

If you can't find the purpose of the extra switch...or just want to remove it, there *are* aftermarket repro faceplates that are very accurate.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Jan 2016 10:39 am

There's a newish stuff called PlastiDip that should be cool for drop fill repairs to Tolex.

Don Mogle · Post by **Don Mogle** » 13 Jan 2016 5:14 pm

Thanks guys for all the help. Great suggestions.

I think I'll try to remove the grille cloth and work on the material to make it look better--tighten it up.

Yes, I agree that I should just leave the amp somewhat as it is and just repair the tolex as best as possible.

I will check out the switch in the front and see what is does and report back (if I can even tell what it does).

Thanks again to all who offered suggestions. I will take them to heart!

Don

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 13 Jan 2016 5:25 pm

i wouldnt even think about the cosmetics on this amp. it looks better that most like it is.

the switch in front....we call those the "bullet hole" models. many fender amps were drilled out at that spot and something added.

Don Mogle · Post by **Don Mogle** » 13 Jan 2016 5:58 pm

OK. I just checked the front toggle switch on the right side, front of the amp, where is says "TWIN REVERB." This is a standby switch.

Apparently, they disconnected the standby switch on the back and moved it to the front. It made an annoying pop when I engaged it off/on, but I'll just try to keep it on or turn down the volume controls before turning on the amplifier with the rear toggle.

I played it this evening on my Zum and it sounds good with Ricky Davis' TR settings (found in a past thread). The real test will come when I play it in a live situation...

Don

Lee Dassow · Post by **Lee Dassow** » 13 Jan 2016 6:09 pm

Don,If it was me I wouldn't touch that grill cloth. leave it as original as possible. It will only go up in value. Your never going to see that kind of technology again those days are gone. To bad about that switch on the face plate. Somebody before you needed a good beating with a fender Telecaster for going through the front of that amp. Still a
good deal and good price. Good luck with it. Tenn.Lee

Carl Mesrobian · Post by **Carl Mesrobian** » 13 Jan 2016 6:32 pm

Save your money and time for "in the future" circuit parts

EDIT - Have a tech check the power supply filter caps, or do it yourself if you know how.

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 13 Jan 2016 8:02 pm

I have replaced the cane seating in a few chairs and I always soaked it in water, then pulled it and fastened it in place. When it dried, it would be nice and tight. I don't know if this trick will work with the grill cloth on an amp or not, but it doesn't cost anything to try. That is what I would do if I was going to replace the grill cloth.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 13 Jan 2016 8:26 pm

George Kimery wrote:I have replaced the cane seating in a few chairs and I always soaked it in water, then pulled it and fastened it in place. When it dried, it would be nice and tight. I don't know if this trick will work with the grill cloth on an amp or not, but it doesn't cost anything to try. That is what I would do if I was going to replace the grill cloth.

cane seating on a fender twin....please...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 14 Jan 2016 7:09 am

I'd probably replace the old grill cloth, and save the original piece in case you want to sell the amp later on. As far as re-stretching and re-attaching the old piece, you'll likely never get it back on as straight as the original (without evedence of "pulls" where it's stapled). Sadly, those extra holes in the chassis will hurt the collector value far more than the normal wear and tear on the covering and grill cloth.

Thr grill fabric is vinyl and mylar, neither of which is affected by water. In fact, I've successfully cleaned a few by removing the speakers, and then spraying the cloth liberally with Windex. After the Windex has been on for a few minutes, use a big paint brush and scrub it, while spraying with some more windex. When you're finished, blot it dry with a turkish towel, and then place a fan in front of it to dry it rapidly. This procedure will really brighten up the old cloth!

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 14 Jan 2016 7:22 am

Thr grill fabric is vinyl and mylar, neither of which is affected by water. In fact, I've successfully cleaned a few by removing the speakers, and then spraying the cloth liberally with Windex. After the Windex has been on for a few minutes, use a big paint brush and scrub it, while spraying with some more windex. When you're finished, blot it dry with a turkish towel, and then place a fan in front of it to dry it rapidly.

I've done that also, but I used a mild solution of dishwashing liquid and water in a spray bottle. It works remarkably well.

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 14 Jan 2016 8:27 am

If that front toggle switch is *really* a Standby switch, I'm sure that I'm not the only one to wonder why they did this. Why not just replace the switch with the right part to begin with?

If I were going to do something, I'd fix the switch on the back with the correct one. Then I'd remove the one on the front and plug the hole (if possible).

If it hasn't been mentioned, it probably also needs a cap job.

And while I had the chassis out, I'd snoop around inside and see if there were any other mods that are apparent.

Congratulations on the purchase. In some ways and in some circles, you have the steel amp by which all others are judged.

Don Mogle · Post by **Don Mogle** » 14 Jan 2016 4:53 pm

Thanks for all the responses/suggestions.

I'm going to try and clean the grille clothe as per your suggestions. I don't think this will affect the value...will it?

I'm giving serious consideration to taking the amp to a local guy and let him bring it back to original spec. In addition, I'd like to replace this face plate with a new (or used if I can find one) version. I've looked around at Mojo and other places and can only find black face plates. If anyone has a lead on one of these, let me know.

Question: How do you tell if caps need to be replaced? Is there something you can hear? Is this something that has to be measured with a meter/tester? Any help is appreciated.

Perhaps I've gotten myself into a money pit. Regardless, it's mine now. The amp deserves to be brought back to an original state (electronically).

Thanks Again!

Don

P.S. I'll keep you all posted with before/after pictures as this story continues to unfold...

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Pawn Shop: 1975 Blackfaced Twin Rev (Latest Upgrades)

Pawn Shop: 1975 Blackfaced Twin Rev (Latest Upgrades)

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It's a good deal...play it and enjoy it

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