78 princeton reverb...change the speaker or add a cabinet?

Ariel Lobos · Post by **Ariel Lobos** » 13 Jan 2016 8:08 am

Hi, i bought this amazing amp. Love the sound, but i readt a lot on this forum about the 10" speaker. Some players said the 10 speaker is good and some others said thatÂ´s good to replace it. A few say that is good to add an external cab with the 12 (celestion is what i can find here in Buenos aires) and im thinking this could be a good way to have both choices. Could you advice me about?
It is for lap, pedal and guitars also, classic strat and hollow or semihollow......increidible clean amp.

Thanks and regards to everybody, happy new year!

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 13 Jan 2016 9:53 am

If you love the sound the way it is, I wouldn't bother changing the speaker. These are great amps (I own one myself) and the speaker that came in it sounds fine to me.

If you do want to use a 12" speaker with it, a separate speaker cabinet will be a good idea, unless you like modifying the amp and potentially losing its value.

Ariel Lobos · Post by **Ariel Lobos** » 13 Jan 2016 10:25 am

Thanks Brad, guess you are right

Chris Boyd · Post by **Chris Boyd** » 14 Jan 2016 5:52 am

I replaced the baffle in my PR with a 12" built by Larry Rodgers in Naples,Fla. Kept the original intact with its 10" Jensen C10Q... Added a Jensen P12N and then an old EV SRO coffee can 12".Your cab doesn't have a removable baffle so an efficient 10" speaker like a 10" Celestion or JBL 110 would be a simple solution.

Matt Berg · Post by **Matt Berg** » 14 Jan 2016 6:11 am

Chris Boyd wrote:I replaced the baffle in my PR with a 12" built by Larry Rodgers in Naples,Fla. Kept the original intact with its 10" Jensen C10Q... Added a Jensen P12N and then an old EV SRO coffee can 12",but a Celestion would work well... an efficient speaker makes these little 12 watt amps fully able to gig with which I couldn't do with the less efficient 10"...or you could just try a 10" Celestion too if that'd be easier and less $$...

I bought a Princeton with a 12" and decided to try the JBL K110 after hearing one in another amp. It's on the floor at DiPinto music, and the tech there told me that people tend to buy guitars they play through that particular amp more often because it sounds so good It's not quite as loud as the 12" Eminence Rex I had in it, but the sound is very focused without being beamy or icepicky. And I determined that the Princeton RI baffle board fits the original (in my case 66) amp perfectly, I just swapped the original logo onto the nice new cloth. I just think the 12" is kinda big for the box, unless you really need the extra volume, stay with the stock speaker or upgrade it. Not that the 12" was terrible for all the years I ran it, but 'd just rather mic my amp, or bring a different one if I need that extra volume.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 14 Jan 2016 6:47 am

On a '78, it's not so straightforward to replace the baffle because it's dadoed in. You need roughly a '71/72 or earlier to do that without ripping the cabinet up. And I would absolutely not cut up the original baffle for a 12" speaker. If the amp sounds good and is loud enough, why mess with it?

Myself, I use a 10" JBL MI-series speaker, it sounds great. It is perfect for recording or low-volume gigs as-is. A K110 is great also. I've had Princeton Reverbs with 12" speakers, I think the 10" JBL keeps up with them, and I honestly prefer the sound of the 10" in that small box. YMMV.

If you really want a 12" speaker, I would definitely get a separate cab with a 12". Or if you really want to boost the overall volume of a Princeton, put a 16 Ohm 10" JBL in the original cab, and then put a 16 Ohm 12" JBL in a separate cab, and run them together. That way, you'll move a lot more air and maintain both the original 8 Ohm impedance and the original cabinet. I did that some years ago - it was amazing how well it could keep up, and two nice lightweight pieces to carry and makes a perfect little stack. Shoulda' kept those.

Matt Berg · Post by **Matt Berg** » 14 Jan 2016 7:17 am

Good points, Dave. FWIW, I've also heard of people running a 12" speaker through a 10" hole, not sure how well that works, but it's been done.

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 14 Jan 2016 8:08 am

For a 12 I would get a replacement cabinet rather than rip up the vintage cab. Cost is about $250

Take the vintage cab and put it in the closet - have Peter Mather build you a new one (which will be better, anyway, for a variety of reasons) and put the 12" speaker in. Now you are in pedal steel tone heaven - especially if you can find a D120 to put in

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 14 Jan 2016 9:08 am

I would definitely not mod the amp. These amps are somewhat collectible. I'm guessing that yours has the pull boost control. If that is "off", the circuitry and signal path should be the same path as the previous era Princeton Reverbs.

Plus, if you decide to try different cabinets, you also have the option of trying a 15 inch speaker. No need to thank me for making your choices even more difficult. ;>))

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 14 Jan 2016 9:42 am

get a steel guitar amp.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 14 Jan 2016 10:36 am

Chris, a 77 Twin Reverb is a good steel guitar amp. Not saying I don't also like an old Session/NV 400 either. But I use a Princeton or Deluxe Reverb for recording or low-volume (read: mostly acoustic) gigs. In fact, some people I deal with won't accept anything else.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 14 Jan 2016 10:46 am

we're talking about princetons. they're too small for
general steel use.
of course, with the right recording technique you could probably mic a pedal steel acoustically if you want to get ridiculous about it.

Ariel Lobos · Post by **Ariel Lobos** » 14 Jan 2016 3:03 pm

I know a lot of pro guitarplayers who recorded with princetons, Louie Shelton in fact. Someone told me Eddie Dunlap recommends it. I guess fenders amps are good for 70Â´s steel sound, the sound most of us love. I have a mesa too, PF has one mesa preamp, (i imagine for overdrive sound). Of course someday ill like to own a solid state steel amp, to have differents options to choose

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 14 Jan 2016 3:24 pm

Chris, there's nothing ridiculous about micing a Princeton or Deluxe Reverb for recording. As I said, some people I deal with insist I bring the Princeton for recording or low-volume situations, they prefer the way it sounds to a solid-state Peavey - imagine that!

But my main point was that Ariel's signature says he has a '77 Twin Reverb, which is a perfectly good pedal steel amp at gig volume. You may prefer something else, but it is a "real" steel amp.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 14 Jan 2016 7:57 pm

yeh i know they can record well!

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 14 Jan 2016 8:25 pm

I see a headstrong Princeton type amp for years in NYC as my main amp. I now live now a louder musical culture and still use a milkman mini for plenty of gigs. The milkman mini is a Princeton type amp also.

I would suggest that if you like how your amp sounds now don't mess with it.
Maybe figure out away to see if you like a 12" better before spending money on it.

Howard Steinberg · Post by **Howard Steinberg** » 15 Jan 2016 5:53 am

My princeton reverb is from the same era as the OP. I had the original speaker which I believe was an Oxford with the blue Fender label. I changed it out hoping to get later breakup and a generally beefier sound. The Weber equivalent of a C10q was a huge improvement to my ears. There are almost too many choices of speakers, however, I'd stay with. 10" in the amp cabinet.

Jamie Mitchell · Post by **Jamie Mitchell** » 15 Jan 2016 8:20 am

my Princeton has a 12". it came that way. it's cool. not the best sounding Princeton I've ever heard, but, anyways. i'd get a small 1x12 w/ a JBL, if I were you. ideally at an impedance where you could use it together w/ your original speaker, if that's a possibility.

even if you don't like it with the Princeton, it's hard to imagine that won't come in handy down the line.

j

Carl Mesrobian · Post by **Carl Mesrobian** » 15 Jan 2016 6:10 pm

I just did a gig with my black face Princeton Reverb with an old Altec 425-8H speaker in it. Amp volume on 3 and mic'ed - sound guy did the rest. If you like the sound, go with it.

With my Tele or ES-330 I crank it up to about 6-7 and let the "meat and potatoes" take over

Ariel Lobos · Post by **Ariel Lobos** » 16 Jan 2016 2:01 am

With my Tele or ES-330 I crank it up to about 6-7 and let the "meat and potatoes" take over

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Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 16 Jan 2016 12:38 pm

"I now live now a louder musical culture"
A nice way to tell that you live in Texas

Ben Waligoske · Post by **Ben Waligoske** » 17 Jan 2016 7:33 pm

I have a '78 Princeton myself, so feel qualified to chime in here. When I got it, it had a re-issue Jensen 10" in there that sounded good with 6-string, but not so much steel due to the low efficiency on those vintage-styled speakers... I put a 10" Eminence Cannabis Rex in which is a more robust design (and more efficient) and couldn't be happier with the added headroom and tone. FWIW, my Princeton also has a non-original output transformer that is beefier than the stock model, which also adds an extra kick...

The amp an excellent option for 6-string work in any situation and I've happily played it with steel at smaller gigs, rehearsals, and so forth as well. In fact, I even used it this afternoon at a quiet steel gig without hesitation... It's also one of my favorite recorded tones I've ever gotten.

I recently acquired a '76-ish Session 400 as well and I've got to say, the Princeton can't really compete with the Peavey in a louder band situation or on bigger stages, and the Peavey sound (not to mention the sound of a 15") has it's own nice characteristics, but as long as I know the gig will be moderate in volume and/or I'll be able to mic the amp into a good PA, the Princeton is still a nice option and is certainly more compact than the Peavey...

Ben Waligoske · Post by **Ben Waligoske** » 17 Jan 2016 7:41 pm

Also, it bears echoing what some others have touched on in that I've been warned by a couple of techs that the original-style PR transformers are not particularly well equipped to drive an extension cabinet (in addition to the internal speaker) for long periods at high volumes... I've also read about folks using a rig like that with no issues, but if you want to be careful about the situation, I'd stick to either just the internal speaker, or if you go the extension cab route, bypass the internal speaker... just not both at once.

Perhaps someone with more hands-on tech knowledge could chime in...

Bob Watson · Post by **Bob Watson** » 18 Jan 2016 12:48 am

I have a '79 PR. I replaced the original speaker with a Weber 10F150T, 8 ohm, 50w, (light dope]. I use it for 6 string electrics, a Strat or a Tele, and a Fender Stringmaster double 8 string non pedal steel guitar. It sounds wonderful and the Weber gave me a cleaner sound with a lot more headroom, but still sounds good for Blues if you have it turned up or use a stomp box. The baffle is glued in so I didn't want to mess with changing it to a 12 inch speaker. If I wanted to use a bigger speaker I'd use an external cabinet. I don't think it would be loud and clean enough for a pedal steel, but it would probably sound good with the E9 neck at a low volume.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 18 Jan 2016 4:27 am

chris ivey wrote:we're talking about princetons. they're too small for
general steel use.

Which includes playing on stage. I had a very bad experience with a Princeton on a middle to big sized stage with my Tele: the sound guy did a real bad job with putting the right volume on my monitor. I couldn't hear myself.
Unless you can trust the person who is mixing, I would avoid a 12 watt amp.