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Topic: Rate my right hand |
Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2015 7:18 pm |
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I've been playing as a hobby for close to 4 years. I think my right hand style isn't going to change much anymore. I remember when I first started playing and seeing variations in the right hand technique of the best players, and wondering what mine would look like.
Here's a video recording I just made to show you:
https://youtu.be/k2wJJ-9PfXM
It's from an arrangement I found here:
https://youtu.be/OCchbMrTy8A
What do you think? Almost looks like Buddy Emmons, right?  Feel free to critique the rest of the video too. I know that the next thing I want to work on is maintaining my sense of rhythm when playing solo. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 9:56 am
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What you did is fine  , almost like what JayDee played in the YouTube clip (except that he didn't "track" the right hand as you did). But neither is how I would have approached it, as I would have probably put more chordal voicing in the first part. This is because, usually, I play in bands without a dedicated rhythm player or keyboard, so I try to "fatten things up" for a fuller sound whenever I can. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 2:54 pm
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Curt: You asked about your right hand technique, but the thing that stands out to me is your left hand. Look at how you move the bar, and then look how JayDee moves the bar. Also view a bunch of videos of Buddy Emmons, Paul Franklin, etc. You "fish-tail" the bar, they don't. That's what you should work on right now.
Hope this helps. Merry Christmas.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Ben Edmonds
From:
Greenfield, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 3:37 pm
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| +1 on the left hand. That was what drew my attention, so much so that I forgot to watch the right hand. Sounded good though! |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 6:42 pm
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| Paul Sutherland wrote: |
Curt: You asked about your right hand technique, but the thing that stands out to me is your left hand. Look at how you move the bar, and then look how JayDee moves the bar. Also view a bunch of videos of Buddy Emmons, Paul Franklin, etc. You "fish-tail" the bar, they don't. That's what you should work on right now.
Hope this helps. Merry Christmas. |
I've heard it before and that's just the personal taste of me and my friends. I do it with discretion. It makes my slides out of tune, but I think it builds tension that gets resolved quickly. |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 6:55 pm
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Okay, you asked. Your left hand needs serious work. You play too far up the neck with your right hand giving you a mushy tone. I think your heart is in the right place but you would be hard pressed to play in a solid pro band with that technique.
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 7:05 pm
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| Tom Quinn wrote: |
| Okay, you asked. Your left hand needs serious work. You play too far up the neck with your right hand giving you a mushy tone. I think your heart is in the right place but you would be hard pressed to play in a solid pro band with that technique. |
I appreciate any opinions. I play for the fun of learning, so I don't get too proud of myself. Where to pick along the neck has always been a question for me. I'd like to develop my taste to the point where I can move around as the piece needs, but it's very hard for me to put my finger on. What you see in the video is my taste in tone... although how it recorded is not totally how it sounded in the room. |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 7:27 pm
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You are doing fine Curt, I don't mean to sound rude. But you need to concentrate on clarity for now. You'll get there, I'm confident in that. :- )
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 9:42 pm
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
| I've heard it before and that's just the personal taste of me and my friends. I do it with discretion. It makes my slides out of tune, but I think it builds tension that gets resolved quickly. |
Curt, I think that is something to pay attention to as well. The one thing I will say is that the slight out-of-tunedness lingers because of the amount of reverb you use, so that tension never really resolved for me.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 10:19 pm
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You have the same fishtail problem with your right hand. Way more movement and tension than needed.
You have given yourself some very debilitating habits over the last four years. I would suggest finding a good live teacher. Or at least spend some one on one skype time with somebody that can help you find a way to get a good tone.
_________________
Bob |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 8:44 am
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I don't understand what people are saying about "fish-tailing". I can see what they're talking about, but I don't hear any intonation problems from it. Why is fish-tailing considered a bad thing?
As for the right hand moving with the left, I think that's a personal choice for tone variance. It's an interesting technique that I use now and then. You should probably try keeping your right hand in one place for a while to learn the difference. For most songs I keep my hand between the fretboard and the pickup.
From what I can tell, you're playing at a very low volume through something that isn't really a steel guitar amp. I think you should beef up your electronics.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 10:18 am
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| b0b wrote: |
I don't understand what people are saying about "fish-tailing". I can see what they're talking about, but I don't hear any intonation problems from it. Why is fish-tailing considered a bad thing?
As for the right hand moving with the left, I think that's a personal choice for tone variance. It's an interesting technique that I use now and then. You should probably try keeping your right hand in one place for a while to learn the difference. For most songs I keep my hand between the fretboard and the pickup.
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I've seen the fishtailing left hand in a few players, and I agree that unless it's creating an intonation problem, it probably a harmless (artsy?) affectation. The aimless tracking of the right hand, however, may cause a problem later on. Normally, this is done for a special reason, like fattening the tone on a certain passage, but just doing it randomly, all the time, will probably prove a hindrance later on.
I still think Curt's doing pretty good for the time he's been playing |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 10:26 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
I still think Curt's doing pretty good for the time he's been playing |
I'll agree with that for sure. Curt, I hope you don't take these comments personally in a negative way. It's a really great resource we have at the SGF where there are people really willing to offer some good advice on things that might help us. Plus, the closer we look at ourselves, the more we can shape the way we play.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 11:19 am
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For the fish-tailing when playing a chord, I can understand if people with more sensitive ears don't like it. My mom has very sensitive ears and doesn't care for slides altogether because of the inherent dissonance. When I fish-tail those, I'm not just momentarily out of tunew with the song (which is normal), but out of tune with the steel itself.
For fish-tailing on single notes, that's purely a compensation for me wanting to stagger the rhythm of the slide, but not having good enough internal rhythm to do it normally. |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 11:29 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
I still think Curt's doing pretty good for the time he's been playing |
I'll agree with that for sure. Curt, I hope you don't take these comments personally in a negative way. It's a really great resource we have at the SGF where there are people really willing to offer some good advice on things that might help us. Plus, the closer we look at ourselves, the more we can shape the way we play. |
Hey, I chose to learn the steel not just because of its sound, but because of its complexity and difficulty too. I plan to be challenged by it for a very long time. I also don't have ambitions for it, so I'm content to learn things the hard way. Anyway, like all things in life, learning the hard way is the only way to truly understand why what's "correct" is correct. |
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Jamie Mitchell
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 1:07 pm
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
For the fish-tailing when playing a chord, I can understand if people with more sensitive ears don't like it. My mom has very sensitive ears and doesn't care for slides altogether because of the inherent dissonance. When I fish-tail those, I'm not just momentarily out of tunew with the song (which is normal), but out of tune with the steel itself.
For fish-tailing on single notes, that's purely a compensation for me wanting to stagger the rhythm of the slide, but not having good enough internal rhythm to do it normally. |
you're not, by chance, using a 12 string bar, are you?
anyways, set a drone, and play melodies/intervals on one or two strings, w/o pedals. look at some Hindustani excersises. that should get your left hand together... |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 1:12 pm
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| Quote: |
| you're not, by chance, using a 12 string bar, are you? |
Yessir. I got it when I was going through a phase where I liked building these really long chords and needed to cover all the strings effectively. |
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Jamie Mitchell
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 3:22 pm
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ah, ok. i suspected you might be, wanted to be sure...
if that bar is so long that you're tucking into your palm to hold onto it, that might causing some of this fish-tailing issue you're having. i was going to recommend getting a shorter/smaller bar - it's christmas, treat yourself.
anyways, check out single string Hindustani type exercises.
check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8WWNKhdy-w
the bar is tilted upwards, and it's small. lots of movement.
that'll fix your slides!
j |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2015 4:36 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| From what I can tell, you're playing at a very low volume through something that isn't really a steel guitar amp. I think you should beef up your electronics. |
Hi Bob, what you're hearing is a combination of an unsuitable multi-effects unit and a microphone that was placed about a couple feet off and to the side from the amp. It's a Peavey 112. I didn't put much care into it. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 27 Dec 2015 5:08 am
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Curt, I've hung back from commenting as I've only been playing a couple of years and I wanted to see what others said, but certain things strike me (as an ex-teacher of other instruments).
It's hard to tell from the camera angle, but your right hand appears to move too much. I'm not talking about up and down the strings - that's part of normal expression - but your picking action seems to involve the whole hand contracting, and some wrist movement too. The fingers should hinge where they join the rest of the hand, which should maintain a natural shape (imho); otherwise I don't believe you can achieve a precise attack.
Like others, I was initially distracted by the fish. A wristy action may feel attractive, but it's probably more important to keep the bar straight unless you're absolutely sure you're in control. I occasionally slant the bar very slightly to brighten the occasional chord, but that is all. [I made my trombone students keep their wrists frozen and pivot at the elbow until they'd progressed enough to try a little swing.]
If you want to find out how you sound, the mic needs to be on axis of the speaker. Does a Peavey amp have built-in reverb like a Fender? I would use just that for now if it does.
These remarks are supposed to be encouraging - enjoy the journey!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 27 Dec 2015 8:12 am
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
For the fish-tailing when playing a chord, I can understand if people with more sensitive ears don't like it. My mom has very sensitive ears and doesn't care for slides altogether because of the inherent dissonance. When I fish-tail those, I'm not just momentarily out of tunew with the song (which is normal), but out of tune with the steel itself.
For fish-tailing on single notes, that's purely a compensation for me wanting to stagger the rhythm of the slide, but not having good enough internal rhythm to do it normally. |
Curt, I can dig where you're coming from with the dissonance, though. I examined my own playing and found that I often do a similar thing by presenting a dissonance before the target chord, but I do it on the treble strings.
I think it has a lot to do with my interest in a lot of the older styles of playing where players were a bit more free--I'm talking 1920s-50s.
When I present a dissonance in the form of what could be called a "reverse fish-tail",  it's really an attempt to introduce a diminished or dominant sound into the picture. Leading into chords with secondary dominants is really effective and interesting, even if not perfectly in tune.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 27 Dec 2015 9:09 am
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A lot of that is done with pedals now - interesting to think that the urge was already there before! Must be a basic steel instinct, pedals or no.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 27 Dec 2015 9:18 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| A lot of that is done with pedals now - interesting to think that the urge was already there before! Must be a basic steel instinct, pedals or no. |
Truthfully, slants can sound pretty dang cool. Maybe not as perfect, but maybe a more intuitive control over the notes and a little more color than pedals might offer. But some people can't get past the imperfection of it.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 27 Dec 2015 9:25 am
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Interesting. I was practicing a little over the last couple of days, and noticed that I fishtail a little. Not enough to hear. I didn't notice I did it until recently.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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John Sluszny
From:
Brussels, Belgium
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Posted 27 Dec 2015 9:48 am
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| Curt Trisko wrote: |
| It's a Peavey 112. |
Peavey NASHVILLE 112 ??? |
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