6 string lap guitar tunings for "guitarist"?

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 18 Jun 2015 5:41 pm

I am a pedal steel player/ 6 string guitar player, and am ok on both.. I am NOT a good player on non pedal steel.. I don't think that well on it.. I play a decent blues/rock style in open E tuning, and can cop a lot of David Lindley stuff, but feel I am faking it.. You would think i am a good lap player for maybe 2 songs, and then the repetition and lack of imagination would reveal me to be a hack..
The open E works ok for what I want to do, but I feel limited and uninspired... I would like to try an " E based" alternate tuning thats close to the E major I use now, or even something akin to a standard guitar tuning.. G or A6 or C6 tunings would never work for me.. At this point I am too locked in to standard E9 and standard 6 string guitar tunings, and don't really want to learn a tuning that would feel alien.. I tried Dobro for a while, but could never get a feel for the open G tuning... any suggestions for a different E based lap guitar tuning that might give more flexibility than a straight open E??... bob

Bob Russell · Post by **Bob Russell** » 18 Jun 2015 6:27 pm

Maybe E7 (E B G# E D B, high to low)? I like that for old-time country stuff. Not bad for blues either.

Or you could try E B G# F# E D, high to low; that should look familiar.

Before I was able to get a pedal steel, I kept a lap steel set up with this so I could learn the guts of E9 tuning. If you're into slants, it has some fun chordal stuff in it.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 18 Jun 2015 8:22 pm

I'm going to suggest this E9, which is pulled from the earliest pedal steel tunings of Isaacs, Emmons and West.

E
B
G#
F#
D
B

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 19 Jun 2015 9:08 am

Interested in why you say one of the 6th tunings wouldn't work for you?

A6 is "pedals down" on strings 4-8 on your pedal steel (4-9 if you have the D->C# change) so you are probably familiar with that. Also, it gives you majors and minors without any slants.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 19 Jun 2015 9:19 am

Yes, A6 should be very familiar territory to a PSG player. It's like pedals A&B down on E9. That makes it quick and easy to find major and minor chords if you already play pedal steel. Keep thinking "pedals down" as you play.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 19 Jun 2015 12:23 pm

I suppose the A6 might be worth a shot, as the "pedals down" mode is plenty familiar of course... Bass range might be a problem, but I could always just keep my current lap guitar tuned to E maj, and use the A6 tuning on a different lap steel... anyone care to post the tuning and suggested string gauges?

Stan Paxton · Post by **Stan Paxton** » 19 Jun 2015 4:21 pm

Bob Russell & Mike, how about these 3 variations you show suggestions, for Dobro?

I'm very much like Bob C said as former 6-string player, and mediocre E9 PSG player, so want to stay with in as familiar territory as possible. (too old to get real adventuresome here). ...
Just barely learning some on Dobro, not leaning to Blue Grass.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Jun 2015 4:26 pm

Here's what I recommend for guitarists, low to high:

A C# E G# B E.

It gives you 2 straight positions for major chords (A and E at the nut), 1 minor (C#m7 at the nut), and a major 7th as a bonus (Amaj7). It works well for rock, blues and Americana.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 19 Jun 2015 7:34 pm

Bob C, the chart below shows how A6 lap steel compares to E9 pedal steel guitar with pedals A&B Down.

For the correct string gauges check the string gauge chart on this site ---> http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/gauges.php

[tab]
E9 PSG with pedals down

F#
A6 lap steel D#
A
E E
C# C#
A A
F# F#
E E
C# D
C#
[/tab]

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 22 Jun 2015 12:36 am

Bob,

Other previous postings here are good ideas for tunings and reasons why.

But allow me to add my 2 pennies:

If you are looking for a tuning that matches familiar fretboard navigation on spanish guitar (which is common in wanting an E tuning on lap steel), then I am a stickler for 6th tunings and E6 on steel would be the same neck navigation as an E barre chord on spanish guitar. E6 tuning at the 12th and 10th frets give you the chords (some are partials but the band or accompanyment is defining root tones and quality anyway) and scales of: E6 (chord) / E7 scale (and full-extension E7 chord), F#m7b6 (pure minor), G#m7b5b6b9 (dim), AMaj7, Bm7 ("blues" minor), C#m7b6b9 ("arab ahab" sound), D(#4) (lydian). And if those qualities exist on frets 12 & 10 then they exist in the very same order for other root notes along the fretboard just like different open chords & scales and different barre chord & scales finger positions do on spanish guitar. And it doesn't take too long at all to become reasonably fluent on the 6th tuned neck if you work at it reasonaby well; And that reasonable fluency breaks the bonds of a few licks / pockets becoming old / stale in playing. When I learned the 6th tuning navigation I was amazed at how soon it broke those bonds, much like a reasonably few finger positions do on the neck of spanish guitar. To prove the point, tune your steel to E6 and have a friend strum AMaj7 on a guitar a few times, then you strum across open E6, and you will hear AMaj7/9. Then have your friend strum Bminor a few times, and you strum across the 10th fret, and you will hear Bm7. Then while your friend is strumming Bminor, you can play any notes in any order on frets 10 and 12 and you will hear all the notes of Bm7 scale. Then have your friend go back to strumming AMaj7 while you play any notes in any order on frets 10 and 12 and you will hear all the notes of AMaj7 scale. You will also find that the notes are stacked up on each fret for harmonies on multiple strings for each and every scale quality. You will also find grips for partial chords on both the 10th and 12 frets. And not only do notes for E7, AMaj7 and Bm7 exist there, but so do the notes of the other scale & chord qualities previously said above. Then have your friend play Eminor while you strum across G6 fret, and play the notes on G6 and A6 frets. You just learned how to get minor and minor7 chords and minor7 notes for any root note (3 frets up from it's 6th chord). And have your friend strum DMaj7 while you strum across the A6 fret, and you play the notes on G6 and A6 frets. Magic. You just learned that IVMaj7 is at the same fret as I6, and the scale notes are on frets I6 and bVII6.

And with E6 tuning you know exactly where the A6 fret is; And at the A6 and G6 frets you will find the same Key math demonstrated in the previous paragraph: I6 / I7 = IIm7b6 (blues minor) = IIIm7b5b6b9 (dim) = IVMaj7 = Vm7 ("blues" minor) = VIm7b6b9 ("arab ahab" sound) = bVII(#4) (lydian). ...All the same notes on the I6 and bVII6 frets for any root note's I6.

__________________________________________________

[tab] frets
10 . 12

F# . G#
D . E
B . C#
A . B
F# . G#
D . E

Note steps:
D . E . F# . G# A . B . C# D . E . F# . G# A . B . C# D[/tab]

Enough already ... slap Turner ... get him outa here!

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 22 Jun 2015 4:06 am

Great post Denny. Breaks it all down without becoming mired in the gory details. I'd nomininate it for a sticky (do we have those here?).

Bill

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 22 Jun 2015 9:29 am

Denny, that E6 tuning makes good sense for a guitarist. And it's the same intervals as C6 tuning, so a player could play C6 tablature on that tuning... of course the sound would be much lower and the chords would be different. But a guitarist could start on that tuning and later switch over to C6 if he wanted to.

3rd
root
6th
5th
3rd
root

admin · Post by **b0b** » 22 Jun 2015 10:29 am

All of the Hank Williams songs by Don Helms are playable on that tuning, note for note without slants.

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 22 Jun 2015 10:00 pm

...Breaks it all down without becoming mired in the gory details.

Bill, thank you for kind words. I have no clue how I managed to dodge the gory details; ...me dodging the gore is unusual; Maybe a guardian angel got tired of the gore as well!

------------------------------------

...that E6 tuning makes good sense for a guitarist. And it's the same intervals as C6 tuning, so a player could play C6 tablature on that tuning... of course the sound would be much lower and the chords would be different. But a guitarist could start on that tuning and later switch over to C6 if he wanted to.

Yessir Doug. When I found the guts of C6 tuning, I put C6 on the middle neck of my Rickenbacker Console 510 ( 10-8-8 ), and put E6 on the inside neck so I could launch back to familiar territory when I got lost on C6.

---

Clarifying for readers that might not recognize or know:

Regarding E6 & C6 tuning having the same intervals you posted, ...the same intervals exist for any root-note 6th tuning 1, 3, 5, 6, 1, 3, not just C6 and E6. And the roman numeral scales and chords do remain the same in each box, ...just in different positions on the fretboard for different root note 6th tunings, ...but the whole template remains the same, just slides up or down the neck depending on the tuning's root note.

---

And you're right about later switching over to C6. ...I got used to C6 reasonably quickly (even being a bit mentally challenged with a kiss of autism), ...especially when I started thinking in terms of I / IV / V navigation. To this day I still can't recite what alpha notes are under my bar, but I hear and know the roman numeral and scale / chord quality relationships in any key in real time without thinking much about it at all.

And the roman numerals follow a song's tone-center movements, and remarkably if you hear a harmony tone center different than a song's numeral tone center movement, then the modal relationships in the 2-frets boxes makes whatever tone numeral quality you play a fatter and broader voicing of the song's different-numeral tone center movement, because every scale and chord quality in the 2-frets box are the very same notes all stacked up for straight-bar harmony with each other.

---

OOPS, ...gettin' gory again. Bailiff, whack Turner's pee-pee!

------------------------------------

All of the Hank Williams songs by Don Helms are playable on that tuning, note for note without slants.

I was watching Bobby Ingano on youtube last night looking for good view examples of how Bobby has a penchant to use a IMaj7 2-frets box (you don't have to play a natural 7 nor other notes in a box if you don't want to) which puts IMaj7, V7 and IV(#4) in the same box and IV7 just 2 frets lower, all within 5 frets of each other, and other scale / chord qualities in or next to those 5 frets ...all straight bar, ...although Bobby is a master of slants he injects in his style (and often smiles with pleasure at the slants' voicing / sound / effect). The song 'Sleepwalk' (at 15:50) is a classic example of how the melody and a player's individual expressions are / can-be contained mostly in IMaj7 / V7 & IV7 adjoining boxes, even though the song's chords are unique and some slighty out of those adjoining boxes but move right back in to great effect. You can see Bobby do that in the above 'Sleepwalk' video link, and then see him using the same boxes in much of his other songs on that same compilation link; Good "lessons" to watch and study, as well as his other yewtoob videos. It's also worthy to mention that a player can move back and forth between IMaj7 and I7 boxes positions, as I / IV / V co-exist in either box, and can move between them with slants to great effect.

------------------------

Thank You for your time and eyes; I hope it might help someone.
.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 23 Jun 2015 3:13 am

I'm liking this ninth tuning, Dobro gauges:

D
B
G
E
C
G

Paul DiMaggio · Post by **Paul DiMaggio** » 23 Jun 2015 10:15 pm

b0b, what do you call the tuning you posted (AC#EG#BE)? I have been looking for a strummable tuning for playing and singing solo, that one seems to fit the bill.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 23 Jun 2015 10:45 pm

I call it "E over A".

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 24 Jun 2015 2:03 am

B0b, Greg Leisz used that tuning a lot when he was a newer steel player.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 24 Jun 2015 6:22 am

I call mine G/C.
I hope that chord terminology will continue this simply.

Roger Davis · Post by **Roger Davis** » 24 Jun 2015 8:13 am

b0b wrote:All of the Hank Williams songs by Don Helms are playable on that tuning, note for note without slants.

Bob I am new to this and a bit confused, which tuning exactly will allow me to do the above?[/quote]

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 24 Jun 2015 10:15 am

Roger Davis wrote:
b0b wrote:All of the Hank Williams songs by Don Helms are playable on that tuning, note for note without slants.
Bob I am new to this and a bit confused, which tuning exactly will allow me to do the above?

Roger - the actual tuning Don Helm used on the top 6 strings of his main tuning were (high to low) G# E C# B G# E but if you tune to standard C6 - E C A G E C you an see that it is the same tuning but every note moved down 4 frets so all his licks would be played in the same way, just 4 frets higher on the neck than he played them.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 24 Jun 2015 1:48 pm

Roger Davis wrote:
b0b wrote:All of the Hank Williams songs by Don Helms are playable on that tuning, note for note without slants.

Bob I am new to this and a bit confused, which tuning exactly will allow me to do the above?

The high E6th (low to high) E G# B C# E G#.

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 24 Jun 2015 3:11 pm

Bob C...

If you want to try something real cool and different. Tune your
lap steel the same as standard guitar and then drop the 4th string a half tone. You instantly have a full A9th Chord and
can play the blues forever.
Low to High: E..A..C#..G..B--E
That's as close to regular guitar fret board as you can get.

Have a listen to Blues/Jazz Lap Steel. Link...

http://picosong.com/g66i

Good luck

Roy

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