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Topic: Building a Buffer into a passive Volume pedal |
John Gould
From:
Houston, TX Now in Cleveland TX
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Posted 4 May 2015 9:34 am |
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I notice that a couple of companies out there offer a mod to the Ernie Ball Jr. that installs a buffer so you don't loose tone. I just tried it on my regular size Ernie Ball pedal and it works great. I own 2 Izzy's and think they are great but I think I can get by without them now, I put the Buffer on the input side of the pedal and I'm noticing no lost tone I also put the power jack on the same side as the input output jacks and removed the passive tone control. A total of 8 parts counting the blue led's very inexpensive to build and it works great. I might end up doing the same to my Sho-Bud pedal
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A couple of guitars
Fender GTX 100 Fender Mustang III Fender Blues Jr. Boss Katana MKII 50
Justice Pro Lite and Sho Bud Pro II |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 4 May 2015 9:39 am
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The reason that the Ernie Ball pedal needs a buffer is that it uses a 250k pot. If you install a 500k pot, you won't need the buffer.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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John Gould
From:
Houston, TX Now in Cleveland TX
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Posted 4 May 2015 9:48 am 500 k Pot
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I have put 500k pots in my Ernie Ball pedals and it still sucks tone. Now I can't tell any difference between my buffered Ernie Ball and a friends Hilton at least with my gear. Emmons and Nashville 1000
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A couple of guitars
Fender GTX 100 Fender Mustang III Fender Blues Jr. Boss Katana MKII 50
Justice Pro Lite and Sho Bud Pro II |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 4 May 2015 10:12 am
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John,
Thank you for always complimenting Li'l Izzy over the years.
I've often been asked to build a Li'l Izzy into a pedal or guitar. One customer requested a pickup with the circuit built right into the pickup. In any of those cases, if the electronics fail, you get to take the rest of the night off. On your volume pedal, I would place a spare output jack wired ahead of the buffer, possibly a tuner output, then in the event of a failure or dead battery, you could swap to the other output jack.
But Wait. . . There's more !
One of the reasons I always recommend Li'l Izzy right at the guitar is: now it doesn't matter if your pot is as high as a megohm or as low as hundred ohms, there's never tone loss. You're missing most of the advantage of the buffer by placing it ahead of the pot. With your 500k pot your pedal will have an output impedance of at least 125,000 ohms. Too high to drive even the best guitar cord. You shake my tree, you get my apples.
All the best to you John,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792
cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com
C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024
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"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name. |
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John Gould
From:
Houston, TX Now in Cleveland TX
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Posted 4 May 2015 10:29 am Thanks Craig
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I'm still a fan of the IZZY I use mine on all my guitars and basses for recording projects. I have for years and don't see not using my IZZY's . I always will have a spare not buffered volume pedal with me . I'm still experimenting I might even buffer the output side of the pedal as well . The circuit draws very little power and I'm powering it from a Boss type supply no battery connection.
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A couple of guitars
Fender GTX 100 Fender Mustang III Fender Blues Jr. Boss Katana MKII 50
Justice Pro Lite and Sho Bud Pro II |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 4 May 2015 11:14 am
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I like the tone change as you lower the volume on a 500k pot, especially if it's connected directly to the pickup. When I'm pushing the volume up, I like hearing the increase in treble cutting through the mix. I used to have buffered pedals, but they didn't sound as natural to me. YMMV
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 4 May 2015 1:28 pm
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| Craig Baker wrote: |
| One of the reasons I always recommend Li'l Izzy right at the guitar is: now it doesn't matter if your pot is as high as a megohm or as low as hundred ohms, there's never tone loss. You're missing most of the advantage of the buffer by placing it ahead of the pot. |
I don't understand this. An Izzy right at the guitar is also ahead of the pot. |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 4 May 2015 3:33 pm
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Hi Brint,
Putting the Li'l Izzy right at the guitar eliminates the tone loss caused by the pickup driving the cord directly. Ahead of the pot, but in the pedal and after a length of cord is the part I don't encourage. My guess is John wanted the convenience of having it in the pedal. However he now has the inconvenience of an extra power supply. To me, the big disadvantage is: he is once again placing a guitar cord across his pickup.
Not to be a smart a.. but believe it or not, I used up a lot of my brain cells developing that little blue box. Some of the benefits are: it's obviously portable, so it can be moved from guitar to guitar, or volume pedal. If it ever fails, it can quickly be pulled out of the chain. It has a long plug so it works with a Stratocaster, It doesn't need external power. Nothing that I know of offers longer battery life, It was created right here in America. It was designed well and it works well, Was I bragging about Li'l Izzy or our Constitution ?
Take care Brint, I enjoy reading your posts.
Craig Baker 706-485-8792
cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com
C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024
_________________
"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name.
Last edited by Craig Baker on 4 May 2015 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 4 May 2015 3:45 pm
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| Actually, Craig, while your points are well taken (I used to use my Izzy with a Stratocaster), what I meant was that I didn't understand what you said in what I quoted. You seemed to be saying that an in-pedal buffer wouldn't be effective because it's ahead of the pot, while an Izzy at the guitar, which is also ahead of the pot, would. Hence my post looking for an explanation. |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 4 May 2015 3:51 pm
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You beat my edit Brint. Our posts crossed.
Craig Baker 706-485-8792
cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com
C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024
_________________
"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 4 May 2015 4:07 pm
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| Thanks. I figured that's what you meant. |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Hermitage, TN
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Posted 4 May 2015 4:34 pm
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| Like B0b, I usually prefer no buffer. Just a high quality 500k pot. But, I recently picked up a Landgraff buzz tone fuzz that plugs into the guitar. The buffer on that sounds fantastic. No increase in treble, which is what I don't like about a lot of them. |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 4 May 2015 8:43 pm
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Hi Brett,
Sounds like you've discovered the difference it makes when you have a "good" buffer. Never a boost or loss in any frequencies. Just the purest tone your guitar can produce. Once you hear a "good" one, it's hard to go back.
All the best,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792
cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com
C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024
_________________
"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 7 May 2015 9:08 pm
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craig..maybe you can shed some light on my setup.
i've always liked the way the izzy cleans things up.
i use two different methods. i always plug my delay in between the steel and the pedal. if i use my older pot pedals, emmons or zum..500k..i plug the izzy into the steel . great sound.
but i get a very similar response with setup #2 which is no izzy and my goodrich 10k pedal. since this puts the buffer 'after' my delay and chord you would think it wouldn't be as clean, but it seems to be close.
why? |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 7 May 2015 9:24 pm
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the patch chords are bill lawrence skinnies which of course are very clean sounding. for those of you who don't know, it's really noticeable how any other chord muddies things up in comparison (especially without the izzy)
(edit oops...George L's are the skinny cords...thanx craig)
Last edited by chris ivey on 8 May 2015 8:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 8 May 2015 4:01 am
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Hi Chris,
Your delay probably has a very low impedance output or it would struggle to drive the 10K pot. Your 10K pot pedal is putting out somewhere around 2500 ohms which combines with the George L cords to preserve "most" of your highs. You're still losing some by putting the cord across the pickup.
Have you had any rains out there? (the wet kind, not the guitar)
All the best,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792
cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com
C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024
_________________
"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 8 May 2015 8:14 am
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oh yeah....george l cords, sorry.
we've seen rain several times this year, craig, but they keep saying it's not nearly enough. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 11 May 2015 4:48 pm
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| Craig, what kind of battery does the Izzy take, and what's the typical battery life? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 May 2015 6:31 pm
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9V. If you remember to unplug it between gigs, it'll last so long that you'll forget it has one. At 8 hours a week? About a year or more.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 11 May 2015 7:23 pm
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Donny,
We use a standard 9 Volt battery.
Lane, your glass is always half full. However, test units have been wired "on" with the battery lasting well over a year. Not long ago, one of my old ones started "motorboating". (oscillating at about 1 Hz resulting in a putt putt putt sound from the speaker.) I had just finished playing through it about 15 minutes prior. The battery with no load measured around 2 volts.
In looking over other forums, there are many complaints regarding batteries. Off brands are probably a bad deal, and I've read that Rayovac and Duracell batteries seem to leak often. In fact the only ones with consistantly good reviews are the Energizer brand. If anyone has used a Lithium smoke alarm battery in a Li'l Izzy, I'd like to hear the results.
Regards,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792
cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com
C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024
_________________
"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 May 2015 7:34 pm
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Geez, Craig.
I said it lasts so long you forget it's in there....
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 1 Mar 2016 8:28 am Bump
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| TTT |
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Edward Rhea
From:
Medford Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2016 7:41 pm
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Craig, I'm using an energizer lithium in my Izzy Plus that I got from Roy Peterman. I'm not sure what results you're looking for, specifically...but I've not experienced any negative tones/noises(aside from my own clams) from the unit with that battery? Also, I've not owned it long enough to give you any hint of its battery usage. You got my word that if any strange behavior/anomaly occur, you'll be the first one to know. So far, zero problems/complaints!
Last edited by Edward Rhea on 2 Mar 2016 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2016 9:46 am
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Note that your pedal impedance is in parallel with the amp input impedance. I've noticed most solid state amps have too low an input Z for pedal steel with it's more heavily wound pickup. Even some intended for steel guitar are too low. I always dig in and find out what it is. If there's a resistor connecting the tip of the input jack to gnd and it's lower in value than 470K I change it to 470K.
Seems I recall my Vegas 400 had a 270K at the input.
Almost all tube amps have an input Z of about 1000K or 1Mohm and taht may explain some of the attraction. |
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